> Caveat: Bear in mind IMO what the Borists were like has little to do
> with their practices today.
But it gives a starting reference we can use chaos on...
>>To me [the Borists] they seem like an adaption of Theyalan Councilic >>chaos-fighting monomyth grafted on the Malkioni or even Brithini lore >>flooding Ralios with the "liberation" from Gbaji.
> My copy of La Toile D'Arachne Solara Issue 1 mentions that the Borist
> Heresy was propogated in 428 ST. This is at least five years after
> Arkat cleansed all Ralios of the Lies of the Deciever. Since Arkat was
> a fanatic, I assume that Safelster had become Malkionized when Ralios
> was cleansed of the deceiver.
Hmm. Ok, Borin was on the man path of Arkat, so some cultural impact is likely. I am doubtful about the flash conversion, though - when I proposed a conversion of the Heortland Aeolians in a generation, I was shot.
> After Arkat left, the history becomes very murky. Ralios or Safelster
> (at least) seems to have unified and sent an army against Seshnela.
During the relief from the Gbaji Wars? Don't make the same mistake as Mike Dawson did in his otherwise nice article on Henotheists in Tales 13: Goraint, Valastar and Mabodinarne conquered Seshnela at the end of the 2nd Age, and if they had indeed been companions of Arkat, they must have been called back after the God Learners fell. Why them, and not Arkat himself?
> A Dara Happan Army led by Emperor Anirestyu then issued forth from Kartolin
> and ravaged much of Ralios (there is a Ralian frieze of him besieging
> Kasda which is near modern-day Delela).
I missed that...
This might also explain the relative fondness East Ralios has for Nysalor: even after Arkat had ravaged the land, he sent troops to liberate them and their cities from Arkat's godless minions...
So the Dara Happans had workng experience in fighting knights along with rabble even before the Carmanians developed?
> Thereupon Ralios collapsed
> into numerous splintered states, each complaining about betrayal of
> the cause by [insert name of neighbouring city states here] and trying
> to hold off the Dara Happans and perhaps the Seshnegi at the same time.
> The Borist faith seems to me to have be born as a reaction against this
> turn of events. People are betraying and fighting all over the place.
> Then Quantan van deen Borin preaches that everybody has been tainted by
> Chaos and this is causing all the woe.
[...]
> This new faith manages to form a powerful state,
> pious in the Malkioni Faith.
Actually, it might provide the evangelical appeal to convert to Malkionism. Gbaji had tainted the theistic religions with chaos, indeed, as the Dara Happan retaliation in Ralios - with Talastari Orlanthi assistance, I suppose - surely proved.
> When Arkat returns to set up the Dark Empire, he sees the Borists as
> little more than 'Consorters with Chaos'. So he stomps on it hard and
> the Borists have been an underground faith ever since.
Then does Arkat reunite all of Ralios?
I mused about the people of Borin, and Peter replied:
> Borin is part of the Korioni people IMO.
Largely, yes.
> The land labelled Vustria
> in the G:LotHW is so wild and sparse that hardly anybody lives there.
Which is why I don't believe that the Vustri were restricted to that land. They were the prime enemies of the Dorastan settlers comng from Karia, moving down the rivers, and there are only few rivers with arable valleys between Karia and the Doskior.
> Vustria also encompasses the eastern wilds
Does it? Right now I'd rather bet on the upper Tanier valley, north of Valantia. The battle at Zebrawood took place halfway between modern Lankst and Karia.
> and I presume that the
> river valleys there were the ones settled by the Dorastan immigrants.
> However most of Ralios is ruled by the Dari Kingdom during Khorzanelm's
> reign which does suggest that the influence of the Dorastan Settlers
> was not great.
Most of the lake region, yes. I'm not sure about Vesmonstran - Otkorion and Surkorion may have been later expansions of the Korioni, but so may Naskorion.
The cultural impact of the "Dorastan" (rather Pelorian) Orlanthi settlers would have been less among the more civilized Safelstrans anyway.
It might be interesting to get an impression of the population numbers during the Grey and Dawn Ages. It seems the Theyalan humans suffered a population explosion when Chalana Arroy healing was spread, and that their settling efforts were a way to relieve that pressure. Dorastor seems to have filled from a 14th century Dragon Pass population to the equivalent of over-urbanized 17th century Sartar/Tarsh within three generations after Kalasmas the Settler, and by the time Kartolin Pass was opened, they felt a population pressure as well.
> I don't think the Safelstrans were as theistic as the Kerofini
> Orlanthi.
I like this approach. (Which means some of my (other 6) Traditional Archenemies will likely shoot the idea... ;-)
Hrelar Amali was the worship site for the rather impersonal deity identified as Flamal in God Learner influenced sources. The human cult for this deity seems more like one of the infamous earth king cults found elsewhere (Genert, Pamalt).
Around this central deity, the founder deities group, most prominently Basmol and Galanin.
> The LoT 'Who was Arkat' from the Lunar PoV gives
> Lokaymadon far too great an influence in Ralios (to insert a Lunar
> Slant that the Orlanthi are unreliable).
Actually, this is inherited from the Dara Happans who relied on the cult of Orlanth Emperor to be as effective in suppressing individuality as their own emperor cult... forgetting that they themselves had been as fractious before Argentium Thri'ile, with Alkoth, Yuthuppa, Raibanth and "rural territories" like Darjiin and Kestinaddi vieing for power. Note that among the Jenarong emperors there are at least four discernible lines: Hirenmador, Hyalorings, Kestinaddan, and Alkoth. Add Avivath's faction, which succeeded only thanks to outside help...
> I'm not even sure that Orlanth was worshipped by the Dari Kingdom.
I suppose you mean the Second Dari Alliance. As far as I know, they worshipped Humakth; at least Maklaman did, and he was their king. (Though Elmal was king of the Vingkotlings, too...)
> I suspect the Dari Kingdom revered the Gods but was 'less close' to them
> than the Kerofini, believing them to be expressions of the One God
> [Insert Ralian Remote Sky God Name here].
Why the (remote) sky god? Any remote god might do... I still propose Flamal First Life as a good candidate for the distant One Divine Source of life and all creation.
> In fact pretty much
> like the Henotheist Church today.
Which one? <g> Using Mike Dawson's terms (Tolerantist, Permissivist and Involvist), they'd be involvists.
>>Was Tapping an issue to the 1st Age Hrestoli?
> The True Hrestroli Way of 200 ST are said to 'outlaws all Tapping'.
With the author's (Nick's) caveat that all of this is God Learner tainted.
> So I guess this makes the Castle Coast Flunkies who Tap peasants
> degenerates and God Learners to boot. ;-)
God Learners: Yes, though less so than the Loskalmi. And look who won HtWW1...
However hard to admit, but the Castle Coast Hrestoli aren't that different from the Rokari. Their main difference is that they take chivalry way too seriously - their knights are (to be) regarded as near saints. After all, Hrestol had to become a knight before he became a saint, didn't he?
Caste mobility is limited: if you want to advance, become a knight. A soldier caste member may learn to ride, enchant a bit, and command a bit, so he might advance if he is diligent, and earns enough plunder to finance his studies and equipment. A wizard caste member may learn not to fall off a horse, order people around, handle the lance a bit, and master some peasant task, his way is easier - especially if he is high enough in the hierarchy to receive sufficient revenues. A noble has the easiest way into knighthood, since command buys teaching. A peasant knight is extremely rare...
The Rokari system isn't that different. Chivalry and nobility overlap, and any advance from peasant caste is through military service as a sergeant.
Given the widespread presence of "Rokarism" (even in Jrustela, Pamaltela, Slontos and Kethaela) I suppose that most of the outlying bishoprics aren't that strict Rokari as are Rindland, Tanisor, Nolos, and southern Safelster. They weren't force converted by Bailifes and Mardros, but simply accepted the Ecclesiarch's authority. Why risk a war with fanatics?
I propose that there are numerous shades of Rokarism and old Hrestolism in the "Rokari" countries off the main crusade path of Bailifes, and only when and where core Rokari enter the picture, problems arise. Such as Vancelain du Tumerine changing an ordinary landgrabbing venture in eastern Maniria (yes, Heortland) into a wave of frenzied iconoclasm (with the lucrative side-effect of melting down the icons removed from the temples)...
A similar event could break out among the Ditali nobility any time, too.
> before the Sunstop.
What did the Seshnegi do at that time? The Akemites were busy standing off an evil heathen god (the White Bear? Arinsor?), according to Cults of Terror, but about southwestern Genertela nothing is said.
[to tap or not to tap]
> When the Riddlers came, such questions must
> have paled into significance.
Huh? Do you mean insignificance?
Anyway, one of the lures of the Riddlers must have been to be able to Tap without being tarnished for that. (or, for the Arolanit populace, to do what they want to and not age...)
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