Re: East Ralios deities

From: David Dunham <dunham_at_pensee.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:43:43 -0800


Peter Michaels wrote:

>One of the RQ/Glorantha websites that I looked over again
>recently was David Dunham's East Ralios site. ...
>However, I always leave just a tad disappointed
>with the pantheon as described.

Same here...

(BTW, the URL is <http://www.pensee.com/dunham/ralios/ralios.html>)

>All this got me wondering about the "cult" of Eurmal in the
>East Wilds of Ralios. Eurmal, whose powers can create or
>destroy. Eurmal, who alters those who listen to him; he can
>make people happy, or sad, or angry, or crazy. Eurmal, who
>(paradoxically) gives people stolen and forbidden gifts; he
>provides things people need to survive. Eurmal, who is not
>bound by (or breaks, or "breaks," or whatever) the Cosmic
>Compromise.

I don't see why Eurmal isn't bound by the Compromise. He breaks society's laws, but the Compromise is a physical law in Glorantha. And why anyone would ask the Liar for a divination is beyond me.

According to the official Trickster writeup in Questlines, the Trickster aspects found in Ralios are Dismembered (since East Ralios is now a Theyalan culture); Firebringer; Fool; Fright; Imp; Shapechanger (a shrine in Naskorion has Become Dirty Shirt); Thief.

>In the East
>Wilds Eurmal is the Prophet, the Poet, the Lawbreaker.

East Ralios is Orlanthi, and I don't think there's a "good" role for him. I think Lankoring is a far better deity for figuring geases.

If you want a "good" role for Eurmal, the bard described in Pagan Shore is better than fili: "A poet and musician with the special function of praising good nobles and lampooning bad ones." Perhaps this is why Orlanthi chieftains keep a resident Eurmali -- they receive poetic praise.

>I think Lankoring is more like the Pagan Shore deity Midir
>(the God of Lawyers); his worshippers are like the
>Breitheamn, who arbitrate disputes based on their
>knowledge of Irish Law. I agree with David that Lankoring
>is the God of Lawspeaking, but I don't think he's the god of
>ALL knowledge the way the Manarian Lankor Mhy is/tries to
>be. I think Lankoring's knowledge is focused solely on the
>Truth as it relates to the Law and has little to do with
>knowing about history, geography, or the "natural" world
>(minerals, plants, etc...) as areas of study. In the East Wilds
>Lankoring is the Lawspeaker, the Lord of Wisdom, the
>Arbiter.

Right, that's what I believe. Perhaps I shouldn't allow Lore as a cult skill (though I added several cultural skills which aren't standard). Although I believe that Lankoring priests (who, BTW, don't have to have beards) would frequently learn more about the natural world in order to better interpret some oracles.

>I think I disagree the most with David about Issaries in the
>East Wilds. Looking at David's spell list, it appears the cult
>is of the Trader Prince variety. I believe he is more akin to
>the Pagan Shore deity Ogham (the God of Eloquence). His
>worshippers are similar to the Eachlach, who travel about
>the land loyally serving their chief as messenger, scout, and
>spy. Note that this is a very different role from that of the
>"neutral" Harald Goodword subcult described in the RoC cult
>write-up; these people are the eyes, ears, and spokesperson
>for their chief and aren't neutral at all. (I think he's also
>worshipped by anyone who wants good bargaining and
>oratory skills, but the majority of his worshippers are the
>messengers.) I also don't believe the East Wilds Issaries
>has the spells Lock or Passage; he's no merchant to be
>concerned with protecting goods. In the East Wilds Issaries
>is the God of Eloquence, the Chieftain's Talker, the
>Messenger.

This is exactly what I believe (except possibly for the spy bit; I believe Issaries worshippers do act as neutral heralds, and are the glue that keeps the region culturally cohesive), so obviously the spell list needs revising. Any suggestions?

Note that Doskior is the trade god in East Ralios, since most serious trade is by boat.

Peter later suggests spells:

>Off the cuff, my version of the cult would probably provide
>spells such as Pathwatch, Retell (David lists it as a spell for
>Issaries, and I assume it allows the caster to be able to repeat
>something word-for-word including inflections, etc. and maybe
>even in the other person's voice), and Hie Horse (similar to Hie
>Wagon, but just for unhitched horses).

Retell is essentially the herald spell you describe; Hie Horse is irrelevant since most Orlanthi don't ride.

>On second thought, forget about Hie Horse as a spell for
>Issaries in East Ralios. (I was still woosy from the attempted
>GPS! That's it!) On reconsideration, I now think the East Wilds
>Issaries provides Pathwatch, Retell, Precision Orate, and
>Eloquence.

"Precision Orate" is a clunky name which should be "Eloquence." The spell you use that name for should be called "Fluency," since it increases language skill. I am hereby adding those two spells to East Ralios Issaries (shrines teach one or the other, usually Eloquence), and dropping Lock and Passage.

Create Moot is an Issaries spell because moots are talking events.

I think we're still lacking some spells for the Speaking God, but this is an improvement.

Yes, Issaries travellers report back to their thanes (just as the Aztec pochteca class of traders spied for their kings). But if they didn't have a certain degree of neutrality, they wouldn't be welcomed at other clans, and wouldn't be able to perform the herald role which is important. I do see Issarians as diplomats as well, which is hardly a neutral role, tho they're still considered neutral noncombatants.

Keep in mind I'm not trying to force East Ralios into the Irish mold -- the Lightbringers should have some resemblance to the cults imported less than 1500 years ago (of course, it would be nice if we know what those were like...).

David Pearton added:

>Another difference is that Urox is not the smelly, drunken chaos killing
>cult that it is in Dragon Pass and Prax (although drink is still
>appreciated ;). Rather he is the god of beserks in general (the divine
>rage) and his worshipers are (often) well respected warriors. Urox is
>respected as the slayer of the devil, but due to the general lack of
>chaos this is not a huge part of the cult. That said old rune lords do
>sometimes make a pilgramige over high Llama pass and never come back.

This isn't exactly how I envisioned it, but it's better. The Storm Bull cult may also be connected to the old god Bemur (though it's more likely Orlanth took most of his aspects). Initiation into Urox probably involves swearing the geas Always Attack Chaos (but tossing a sling stone would be sufficient should you meet something truly horrible you then want to run away from). And as you know, some clans (like your own Karbaring) have a Wind Ring, where an Uroxi holds the Beast Wind position.

You've got your passes confused. High Llama Pass cannot be pilgrimmaged over because the Ban is in effect. At least the Uroxi do cross Kartolin Pass on occasion; Orlanthi Wind Lords have the habit of flying there, shouting challenges to chaos, then leaving when nothing answers right away.

Peter Metcalfe wondered

>On the subject of God Learner Switches:
>
>Anybody know what happened when David Dunham and David Cake met up
>at the Con? David Cake has not been heard off since and David
>Dunham has been avoiding people. I find this _very_ suspicious ;-)

Since I'm the owner of the David rune (note my greater stature), nothing serious happened to me. I haven't been avoiding people, but consciously chose to avoid most technology while on vacation. Somehow bringing a PowerBook to Uluru (Ayers Rock) would have been sacrilegious.

A con report should follow in my next posting.

David Dunham Pensee Corporation dunham_at_pensee.com Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 http://www.pensee.com/dunham/

    "I say we should listen to the customers and give them what they want."     "What they want is better products for free." --Scott Adams


Powered by hypermail