>...to the whole-scale overhauling of our sources (*NO* Kings of Dragon
>Pass; *TWO* Feathered Queens conferring sovereignty) that Peter has
>suggested.
I'm not 'whole-scale overhauling' the sources, I'm suggesting a possible solution _explaining_ the contradictions. Reading it as written and believing there is only one Feathered Queen in Dragon Pass is on par with thinking that Moraides dies in 1610 or that there is only one Argrath in KoS IMHO.
What I'm saying is that becoming the KoDP originally conferred some tangible _otherworldy_ benefit as he has tamed the land (although at the expense of his fertility). But knowledge of how to attain this status was lost by various stages until the publication of the CHDP which made revealed details about Ironhoof for the first time ('no known parallel sources' p99 KoS). IMO all that anybody knows nowadays (as of 1621 ST) is that 'Arim married the Feathered Queen' and 'Arim became King of Dragon Pass'. Tarkalor, Moraides and Sartar are not being dishonest when they claim to be KoDP but they are still KoDP in name only.
Marrying the Two Feathered Queens confers no such benefit - save for the alliance with their respective factions. They confer no sovereignty other than that acknowleged by their subjects. Nowadays anybody can call himself KoDP as the title has become a polticial one. It is Argrath who discovers how to attain the position as of old.
Paul Heinz:
>However, The imagery of the third eye _being_ the seared navel was
>too much for Nick and I to resist!
The only problem is the third eye is the traditional third eye of enlightenment - trolls do not have navels in their foreheads. Perhaps it's a primitive lobotomy (with a burning stick) to burn out cherished memories of their mother? They could still scar their bellybuttons although we may need a third scarification (I suggest the heart - so they can't be nice again) so as to filful the August Tripartation as revealed by the Prophet Dumezil (in simpler words - three is a nice number).
>Personally, I imagine raw fire _IS_ forbidden to trolls, especially
>male trolls.
The only problem I have with this statement is 'forbidden' because it connotates laws and taboos whereas simple Fear for a Troll is sufficient. Like there is no prohibition against disobeying your mother but most trolls do so anyway because She Frightens them.
And why male trolls specifically prohibited? Female Trolls AFAIK do not use fire either.
David Cake:
Me>>The representation of Zorak Zoran has the Third Eye is used
>>by non-Trolls who deny his trollish ancestry.
>Do human worshippers of ZZ necessarily deny his trollish ancestry? I
>imagine the human ZZ/Arkati do not deny his trollish ancestry, for
>example, they just don't think its important.
Vague wording on my behalf. My statement was meant to be be read in the sense of the non-trolls who deny ZZ's trollish ancestry represent him with three eyes. Those non-Trolls who acknowlege ZZ's trollishness do represent him as a troll (ie Ralians).
>>I'm not aware of the reason why ZZ has three [eyes] as the only
>>association that springs to mind is enlightenment (which I reject
>>for obvious reasons).
>While I think its quite interesting..... Zorakarkat? I can see there
>being illuminated ZZers due to this connection
Perhaps. But then the motif was around before illumination (cf Gods Wall for an example of a Zorak Zoran-like diety with three eyes). IMO describing the Third Eye as Illumination is a synthetic myth invented by the Dark Empire. OTOH I have just remembered that there are the Third Eye Blue Smiths who have a third eye to see the metal so ZZ's third eye looks like some shamanic secret.
However this does not gibe with troll perceptions of ZZ as a Troll Death God or (IMO) human perceptions of him as the Dark Side of Lodril. Hmm. What's the Entekosiad say about Deshkorgos?
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