>> Nick, speaking out of my heart's depths:
>But... you didn't send me a Valentine to tell me so! Cruel, Joerg!
I tried, but the flower I grew hid below a snowdrift...
>Generally, I prefer the minor changes and reinterpretations
>you're proposing to the whole-scale overhauling of our sources [...]
Anybody else?
>>[The] FHQ underwent some further initiation
>>at Kerofin Temple making her a Sorana Tor. How about that?
>Only if you can come up with some reason why she would want to. It's not a
>very colorful idea.
This comes from my current discussions about Tarsh and Esrolia/Holy Country with the Seattle gang, and a long chat I had with Nick and Tom Zunder in Berlin last year.
Nick proposed that the Esrolite earth queens placed all the unpleasant aspects of the earth outside of their immediate realm: Babeester Gor at Axe Hall, on the Shadow Plateau, Maran Gor in the Shaker's Temple in Tarsh, and Ty Kora Tek below the Necropolis (if I recall this correctly - that was after three days with way too little sleep).
Jeff Richard poses that all the earth cults of post-Dragonkill Dragon Pass rely heavily on the Esrolite inner cult (and structure), which deviated from the ordinary Orlanthi course still followed by most of the Esrolites likely to the end of the 1st Age. Jeff, would you present your ideas here, please?
All this stuff is based on the short description of Reaches Farthest's quest to become the FHQ, on pp.227f in KoS. Jeff identified the "shadow realms" sought by the FHQ tentatively as the Shadow Plateau. Both of us agree that "There she met her sisters, who had been missing for many years." relates to the earth cult of the six earths which gave the inspiration to the God Learner text in Wyrms Footprints.
>I'd vote for the idea of a cloak made of flayed ducks
>simply on the basis of it being a cool idea.
Still: Why would any earth queen flay ducks and wear their hides? What did they do (except squawk annoyingly)?
>But all this bit about
>timelines strikes me as pointless because (a) I doubt Greg has it straight,
>either,
I fear you might be correct in this,
>and (b) Greg obviously put contradictions in the sources for his own
>reasons (about which I refuse to speculate in print).
True. However, since Jeff Richard and I are currently speculating about a campaign set in Tarsh in the early 1620s, the Moirades/Pharandros question is directly related to gaming.
>Give us something meatier, Joerg.
Working on it...
>>In fact, the Inhuman King does infer the sovereignty over DP to the victor
>>of the contest between the most successful suitor and the current avatar
>>queen of the land. Check p.136:
>That is for Sartar's marriage. There is no evidence that he presided
>over the _earlier_ marriages.
Arim "spoke to a dragon", and Ironhoof ruled in a time when the dragonewts were "assuredly the dominant race" because as the leader of a new race he would be an impartial arbiter.
>>Of course, Peter says that the Sartarites got it wrong, but Phargentes
>>apparently did not think that Tarkalor got it wrong when he married FHQ3.
>That is a Sartarite PoV. Phargentes may have been competing for the
>hand of the Feathered Horse Queen but he may not have recognized that
>marrying her conferred KoDP status.
He will at least have known what it would have meant to the Quivini had he been successful...
>He couldn't have married the Tarsh
>Exiles for they were hostile to him having offed the previous king.
Also, King One-arm had little intention to be sacrificed after seven years...
(Aside: I didn't notice, until now, that Tarkalor ruled just seven years after marrying the FHQ. Old myths are hard to overcome, aren't they?)
>Moirades' marriage to their FQ looks like a peacemaking gesture IMO.
So you suggest that the Tarsh Exiles were allies, or at least friendly neutrals to Moirades' Tarsh?
(the compiler of JTC 271,852)
>Then how does he get the reign length of Yarandros and the fact that he
>was KoDP (which is not attested to in the CHDP)?
Good question. 1260 sounds like an educated guess, knowing about Alavan Argay (1250).
As to the "fact" that he was King of Dragon Pass, do we really believe that?
>I'm not disputing that
>the CHDP was used, merely that the compiler had access to other sources.
Sure. Living in Jonstown around 1650, there still was a whole library available.
>Illaro ruled over Tarsh proper, the Kerofini Tribes and the Far Point
>Tribes.
Illaro ruled over a country still torn by civil war. (As did Argrath before 1630 - I can't explain why the Jonstown collector chose 1643 as the start of his being KoDP, at least 1638 (Dwernapple) would have been appropriate. Unless the bringing of the aurochs was integral in becoming King of DP - Moirades brought the red-tailed fly-catcher, and I think Tarkalor can be credited with the vrok-hawk. Sartar had his flying fish...)
>Sartar ruled over the Quivini and the Grazers are only _allied_
>to him. It seems to me that Illaro filfulls this (thoroughly un)mythical
>property qualification to a greater degree than Sartar!
Sartar built his temples everywhere, and was accepted even by the dwarf of dwarf mine, and other non-humans (who flocked into Boldhome, too). ANd he had the blessings of the Inhuman king.
>>>Therefore marrying Sorana Tor does not confer Kingship over Dragon
>>>Pass.
>>Marrying a Sorana Tor doesn't, evidently. But then Illaro did not even
>>manage to gain sovereignty over all of Tarsh, since he had to negotiate
>>with the Aldachuri.
>And Sartar had sovereignty over the Grazers?
Apparently. Not that this meant he could command them at his whim, but there even was Geo's Horsing Around in, at Queens Post.
>Then why doesn't he reckon Argrath as KoDP from his marriage to the
>Feathered Horse Queen?
IMO because Argrath married the FHQ before he even qualified (fully) as Prince of Sartar. IMO Argrath's marriage to the FHQ was an attempt to overcome Kallyr's lighting the Flame of Sartar on day 88, 1627 (his own colourful variant taking place after Harrek plundered the capital), when all he could show off as qualification was the alliance of the Far Point tribes and the Pavis refugees, opposed to Kallyr's support by all the Quivini tribes.
Or, as I said a bove, because it took him so long to introduce his new (or lost) beast into Dragon Pass. I grant you that the aurochs is a lot more impressive than the red-tailed fly-catcher...
>>For instance with the question who the oh-so-wealthy husband of FHQ5 could
>>have been, if not Moirades who was known for his extreme wealth (he even fed
>>the lowland Lunars in time of famine):
>Who said it had to be a King? It could be like y'know a filthy rich
>Lunar from the Saird and Sylila. Or someone from Nochet? The other
>two competitors for the hand of the first FHQ were not Kings.
Temernim of Dunstop was one of the (2nd) Tarsh Civil War king aspirants, IMO, and Jaradros of Sylthi may or may not have been a local (non-lethal?) harvest king. His family evidently ruled in Sylthi and environs, and he could give this land as his stake in the suitors' contest.
Why not add 1 and 1 and take Moirades, the acknowledged richest man in Dragon Pass (before Fazzur became Gouvernor-General and inherited his father's duchy, at least)?
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #392
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