Zorak Zoran and sundry..

From: owner-glorantha_at_hops.wharton.upenn.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 15:59:44 +1300


Pam Carlson:

>After all, doesn't she (Xiola Umbar) help not-trolls, too, and even once
>that dispicable Glowing Thing? (Whose myth is that, anyway? No DHappan
>would ever concieve of it...)

Apparently they have. There is a Dara Happan Heresy known as the Umbarites (which was a home grown version of Spolitism). No prizes for guessing the chief goddess of the Umbarites.

PM>> However this does not gibe with troll perceptions of ZZ as a
>>Troll Death God or (IMO) human perceptions of him as the Dark
>>Side of Lodril.

>Where does the ZZ as Dark Lodril come from? While there are similarities
>(underground, fire, disorder) there are huge gulfs between the two (Lodril
>as Earth, Fertility, ZZ as Death and Cruelty). As far as I can tell, these
>latter aspects are not shared between them at all.
>Is there any overbearing evidence for this?

I said Dark Side of Lodril. Frex, Gorgorma is considered to the Dark Side of Dendara and they have many aspects which are not shared (Dendara as Earth, Fertility, Gorgorma as Death and Cruelty).

As for the overbearing evidence, Deshkorgos (Monster Man) looks like Zorak Zoran, acts like him and is considered a subcult of Lodril. I'm not saying that Lodril=Zorak Zoran or even that Deshkorgos=Zorak Zoran. What I believe is that the Zorak Zoran and Deshkorgos were very similar at the beginning being the Dark Side or Counterpart to the Local Earth God. The Worship of Zorak Zoran was picked up by trolls on their way to the surface world and moulded by their own inhuman perceptions into the totally new form we know now (discarding apparently meaningless things like three eyes).

>Is not the "Cruel God" at the Hill of Gold Zorak Zoran? How about the
>Selfish God - Orlanth?

There are many other gods at the Hills of Gold. Basko is mentioned as met there from the Dara Happan PoV. I don't think Orlanth was there. More likely Shargash crippled Elmalus there and the Orlanthi later substituted Orlanth for Shargash in their myth (and much later they did it again with Yelmalio for Elmalus) IMO.

Personally I think the Hills of Gold is a Holy Grail type contest for the Orb of the Eye with many gods and heroes questing for it. Only during the Great Darkness, it was a lot grimmer and nobody succeeded for a long time...

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