> I have been thinking about either having trait requirements for each > saint or make the players roll under a trait to invoke the saint's > blessing. I have been thinking about: Just for Paslac, Valorous for > Talor, and Just (?) for Gerlant etc.
Nice idea. Maybe for Gerlant the character should have a high Loyalty (Followers); higher than than any other Loyalty or Love, perhaps? Given that the key to Gerlant's legend was his correct decision to reject Arkat
Reading them, I feel enthused and inspired, and will take this opportunity to range around the cultures and castes of Carmania, taking Loren's framework (with great gratitude) as my starting point. I hope we can pin down a few more facts about contemporary Carmania through whatever discussion this sparks. What follows is only my opinion (and written without access to my sources and notes): if anyone else out there has better recollection, a better interpretation, or something to add, *please* let us know!
The Pelandan culture is dominant throughout lowland Carmania; the Spolite and Worion cultures have had a profound influence on the nobility of Carmania (as have the Dara Happans, for that matter); the highlands and "traditional" Carmanian values reflect Jhor, the river valleys and seacoasts Bindle, while wandering Harangvats can be found within and beyond Carmanian lands.
That said, the influences on Carmanian culture can be examined along lines inspired by the four modern Satrapies (NB: the title of Satrap was translated as "Count" in the Genertela Book), as long as one remembers that:
o All cultural boundaries extend beyond those of their Satrapies.
o Indigenous cultural regions therefore overlap considerably.
o Many Carmanian Great Houses show traits from these cultures.
The "pantheon" and "stereotype" shown below are, of course, extremely simplistic and unfair labels, and usually reflect the Carmanian point of view.
SATRAPY LOCATION PANTHEON STEREOTYPE
Spol North Dark cruel witches Jhor East Earth harsh but fair Worion South Storm unruly thugs Bindle West Water deep and subtle
* * *
SPOLITE culture is derived from the Spolite Empire of the early Second Age. In its heyday a rival to Dara Happa, their outlook grew from Pelandan roots but was heavily influenced by a Nysalorian "heresy" (i.e. an amoral "designed" religion) which turned to Darkness in order to better defeat the Solar Empire of Dara Happa.
Historically, the Spolites converted or dominated most of Pelanda, but were defeated by the fortuitous arrival of Syranthir Forefront and the Ten Thousand. That period is generally known as the Spolite Oppression, or the Empire of Gloom, though in all fairness their Carmanian conquerors pragmatically adopted many of their "oppressive" ways in order better to suppress their Pelandan former allies. Two Shahs of Carmania descended from Spolite marriages turned to the "Dark Side", and are still remembered for their inhuman cruelty.
To this day the Spolites are notorious for witchcraft, black sorcery, and cold, calculating cruelty. (Though not for illumination: it appears the founders of the Spolite Way may have designed a system which their successors fully believed in). Their women worship Xentha and Xiola Umbar, and many of them wear a concealing black garment which leaves nothing except the eyes visible (Yolanela does not do so, although her daughters may).
The bleak highlands of JHOR, east of the Brass Mountains, were the first lands granted by the Pelandans to Syranthir Forefront (who named them after his homeland of Jorri, in Loskalm). Always part of the Pelandan cultural region, the values of Jhor are now archetypally "Carmanian": the rulers affect to prefer lives of remote austerity within their ancestral castles to descending to the teeming Pelandan plains, saying that their chosen way keeps them hard, and able to overcome the soft folk of the lowlands. A local version of the cult of Maran Gor is popular (though it hardly resembles the God Learner write-up, being concerned less with earth-shaking and -blasting magics than with the virtues that accrue by surviving in a harsh land).
To the south, WORION is a highland region, part of the Rockwoods' "Barbarian Belt". Origin of the last, bull-worshipping dynasty of Shahs whose rule was overthrown at the birth of the Lunar Empire. While I don't know much about this backward, tribal region, I am certain it isn't occupied by cookie-cutter stock Orlanthi. In particular, their religion is derived from that of Bisos and Eses, the Bull Father and Cow Mother. (Much more about these myths can be found in the "Entekosiad").
BINDLE, on the Sweet Sea, was in ancient times a centre for the followers of YarGan (cf. Tales #13). This history is seldom evident in Bindle today, although there are rumours that the cannibal water-folk driven underwater by Bisos the Bull-God still survive (and may still emerge at night, or steal away children who venture too close to the shore). As Loren says, some secret cults involve the veneration of sub-aquatic Things it is perhaps best not to speak of.
For the most part, though, their religion is subtle: its symbolism and world-view involves mirrors, reflections and illusions, transformation and gradual transitions, to an altogether disconcerting degree (from a traditional Carmanian viewpoint). They are described as a shifty, unreliable, unfathomable people through much of Carmanian history, acknowledged to have "hidden depths".
OTHER PEOPLES INFLUENCE CULTURE STEREOTYPE
Pelandan everywhere Agrarian gentle and artistic Harangvat nowhere Primitive vagabond savages Dara Happan on top Civilised cultured nobility
* * *
Almost everywhere in Carmania is influenced by PELANDAN culture: the cultured "Land of Women" (an unfair stereotype, as Pelanda was also home to great generals and statesmen in its day) was rescued from Spolite oppression, only to be subjected to Carmanian domination for centuries. The great works of "Carmanian" art, sculpture, architecture, and poetry (other than religious verse, but including the national epics, the "Anabasis" and "Alkothiad"), were all created by Pelandans.
The "feminine" Pelandan influence, and in particular its mystery cults, have permeated deeply into the doctrines of the Lunar Empire, and it is important to remember that Pelandan culture was centred on the Oronin Valley, not the Brass Mountains, with significant influence in the modern Oronin, Karasal and Doblian Sultanates. Most of the oppressed serfs of Carmania are of Pelandan descent.
(NOTE: Modern "Carmania" is by no means coterminous with the ancient kingdom and empire, which always centred on the Oronin valley. Thoughout the western Sultanates of the Lunar Empire, and even further afield, you can find survivals from the Carmanian Empire. Its present "rump", the West Reaches, include regions which were only marginally Carmanian in the Second Age, such as Bindle and Worion, often independent allies rather than subjects of the Shahs: the Lunar sultanate of Oronin is predominantly Carmanian in aspect.)
The HARANGVATS roam outside the structures of everyday Carmanian life: footloose vagabonds, thieving savages, tinkers and pedlars and tale-tellers, foresters and boatmen. They roam to north and west and south of Carmania, an indigenous race with their own distinct culture. They are not serfs, have had almost no impact on the manners of Carmanian noble society, and appear largely unchanged by history. (Paul Reilly and Finula McCaul know *far* more about the Harangvat society, culture and religion than I ever will).
The DARA HAPPANS may appear out of place here, but have in fact had a great influence on Carmanian noble manners. In the heyday of the Carmanian Empire, under the Lion Shahs of the tenth and eleventh centuries, Dara Happan influence was of great significance at the court of the Shahs, and later Padishahs. (Some historians, of an overly-religious bent, have seen the overthrow of Lion by Bull as a reenactment in the political sphere of Orlanth's murdering Yelm). Many of the key concerns of Carmanian religion -- with ritual purity, the primacy of the Light, the unity of Truth -- owe as much to their Dara Happan cousins as to their Malkioni ancestry.
Speaking of which, let's take a quick look at the CARMANIANS themselves. As most of you will know, there are few "common" Carmanians: the Ten Thousand invaders under Syranthir Forefront forged a warrior-nobility with its own distinct priesthood, and many Carmanian ways show remarkable signs of preservation from their Malkioni forebears. (Indeed, some scholars speculate that, beyond the pernicious influence of the God Learners' "Cult of the Invisible God", Carmanian Orthodoxy has more in common with the ancient Malkionism of the First Age than any of the God Learners' legacy "mainstream" sects found in the West today).
The castes' religious roles may seem restrictive, but this is not in fact the case. They rather define the broad outlines of Carmanians' careers: the archetypal roles and concerns of the "average Carmanian" (as if such an individual existed!). The vast majority of Carmanians will follow one or more other "cults" (be they mystery cults, hero cults, oppositional dualist cults, ancestor cults, imported foreign deities or local spirits of place), as well as the defining cult of their caste.
Note too that many traces of the religions followed "historically" are still to be found among the Great Houses of Carmania. The sole exception is the cult of Carmanos the Founder, First Shah, Lawgiver and Guide to Righteousness: this was first shattered at the Four Arrows of Light, then destroyed in the Blood Kings' Wars, as a deliberate act of Lunar policy.
CASTE LUNAR ERA HISTORICAL ERAS
Karmanos Moonson, Etyries, Yelm/Lion, Bisos/Bull, "Lords" the Red Goddess Issaries, Argan Argar, (Carmanos the Founder) Vizier Irrippi Ontor, Lhankor Mhy, Atyar, Ikadz, "Wizards" the Red Goddess, Subere, Valind, Dayzatar, unaligned Sorcery unaligned Sorcery Hazar Yanafal Tarnils, Humakt, Zorak Zoran, "Knights" the Seven Mothers Maran Gor
* * *
Again, this overview is by no means definitive or all-encompassing. Remember, though, that the Carmanians deliberately isolated themselves from the God Learners: Carmanian "cults" tap into the same sources of power known throughout Glorantha, but they do so from their own distinct cultural perspective. It would be hard to be prescriptive when describing the religious practices of a secretive, justifiably paranoid, inbred and fragmented noble class, which combines theistic fervour with a pragmatic and manipulative "sorcerous" approach to otherworldly powers, and has survived through the centuries by flexibly adapting to each change in ruling dogma.
The Magi of Carmania are an isolated sub-group at the pinnacle of the Vizier caste. They, and they alone, are permitted to devote theistic worship to Idovanus, the Wise Lord, Source of Goodness and Light; from the revelations He permits them, they regulate the other religions of Carmania, encouraging and suppressing them in turn as they attain and decline from righteousness. The gods are not perfect, and they change (and *are* changed) as the world changes. Only All-Seeing Idovanus is eternally pure and vigilant against the wiles of evil Ganesatarus, the Deceiver, Father of Lies, Filth and Corruption, who seeks eternally to deprave True Religion.
> the many masks of the Wise Lord Ganesatarus, His emanations and > separations.
This may have been a slip. In the historical period (cf. the "Entekosiad"), the Carmanians knew Idovanus as the Wise Lord, and Ganesatarus as the Lord of Evil. However, the event shown in Lunar dish art of the Red Goddess's heroquest (cf. Wyrms Footnotes #10) as the "Binding of Gbaji" or "Freeing of Nysalor" was the stage where Irrippi Ontor taught her how to tell Truth from Falsehood. In one of Greg's outlines for this myth, the Goddess is confronted by two beings, apparently identical, and must deduce which one is the God of Truth and which is the God of Lies.
I'll grant you it's *possible* that this revelation (or subsequent jiggery-pokery by Aronius Jarathir and the then Heirophant of Carmania) could have turned the previous Carmanian dualism on its head, with Ganesatarus recognised as the principle of Good and Idovanus as an evil Deceiver. But this smacks of silliness (like some of the more outre Elmal/Yelmalio theories, time-travelling HeroQuests, etc.): I'd prefer to have the Carmanians worship the Masks of Idovanus to this day.
That's all for today. Being a pig, I haven't given much thought to Carmanian women: Loren's account of the Carams and Waleeshas looks OK to me.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #417
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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