Magic, etc.

From: Nick Brooke (D&T CAS) <"Nick>
Date: 20 Mar 96 08:47:34 EST


David Cake:
>> Having a myth about something and believing that it is 'magic' are
>> different. Magic and the results of magic are different, a distinction
>> that I think most Gloranthans can grasp easily despite being exposed to
>> magic fairly often.

Aden Steinke:
> Gloranthans must be able to differentiate, otherwise those initiated into
> cults that have prescriptions agains magical healing etc. would be always
> wandering around in great danger to their immortal souls as a result of
> human/baboon/sentient fish error.

One big jump we have to make is in our own minds. Some things are "magical" in Glorantha which we would say were psychological or intangible in the real world. For example, casting Fanaticism on yourself (anyone think you'd cast Fanaticism on your enemies by insulting them? :-), or Demoralising your foes (Big Hralf, one of my favourite Greydog characters, called this spell his "Big Shout", and it worked very nicely), or using your Morale to rally the lads round the Red Vexillum for the last stand, or even Glamour's rune spell of Optimism, or Saint Rokar's Blessing (recently seen on this list).

I'm very pleased with the way the Cult of the Granite Phalanx gave rune spells for hoplites to explain the mechanics of their way of fighting: it seemed to me to be a more RuneQuesty way of seeing the hoplite "ideology" than working out mechanics for how much better you get at certain skills after practicing them for certain amounts of time. After all, "hoplite-ing" is something you can only do communally, with a vast supporting crowd of fellow 'believers' striving towards the same end. Fits the model of a RQ war cult, IMHO.



Martin wrote:

> As far back as WF #12 (Aug. 1981), Greg has been struggling with the
> scope of Divination because of the dire effects on the world it can have
> if misinterpreted. (This also led to the death of the Discorporation
> rune spell, but not to a reform of Form/Set [Substance], don't ask why.)

Perhaps because Form/Set [Substance] didn't exist in RQ2 to be reformed?

At around the same time, Vision and Invisibility (previously available to anyone who wanted to wreck a scenario) were radically cut back: first written out, then slipped back in through the Blue Moon Cult and Trickster, two unreliable and/or unavailable sources...



David Cake, again:

> Not all the God Learners are bad. Some of them were great guys no doubt,
> some have done lasting good to the world, some of their teachings were
> no doubt instrumental in many modern Gloranthan philosophies.

Sure. Even in the West, where 'paganism' and 'demonology' are now anathema, the early God Learners are respected as Church Fathers, founders of Western greatness and religious purity, while their Middle Sea Empire is looked back on as the "Good Old Days". But expressing the view that "Some God Learners were OK guys" in Glorantha today is like saying "Well, at least under Hitler the trains ran on time... and he was a vegetarian, and kind to Eva Braun's dog."

True, But.



Loren posted some Spirit Planes, including a degenerating hierarchy of views for shaman, priest and wizard, and a hybrid Carmanian version. I'll happily adopt and endorse all of these.

Robert's gods continue to eavesdrop on languages. Now, I have nothing against the idea that some languages are inherently magical: Tradetalk (a God Learner construct, denounced as such in a Note from Notchet), or New Pelorian (aka "Newspeak", the carefully constructed official language of the Lunar Empire, which shapes its speakers' thoughts into politically- or ideologically-correct forms), or any of the "Elemental" languages from the back of RQ2.

But I don't think this is the primary way gods gain information from mortals. Otherwise, Issaries' unheard-of relative Mother Tongue, ancestress of all Gloranthan languages, would know everything that anyone had ever said. And this is damn' silly.

How would troll gods differentiate between different categories of things said in Darktongue? (Does XU hear all the nice things said, and ZZ all the nasty ones?). Would Orlanth understand both Sartarite and Tarshite (frex), and snitch on speakers of one to the others? Or does he only eavesdrop when a stave of Orlanthi Poetry is spoken in the original Stormtongue (in which case, what does he ever learn)?

I side with Loren and the WF12/RQ3 formulation: the gods *don't* know everything, and are more fun that way. Divination is a GM-enabler, not a scenario-crippler. There are plenty of good reasons (both social and magical) for not shooting your mouth off in Gloranthan games, without needing to distort the world this way.



Nick

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