> For some reason today I seem to take exception to almost everything Nick
> Brooke says...
Hurrah! Another victim!
MAGIC >> Some things are "magical" in Glorantha which we would say were psychologi- >> cal or intangible in the real world. [e.g: Fanaticism, Demoralise, Morale]
> I know a lot of people believe this. But I'm sorry, it just doesn't make
> any sense.
Wot? I'm saying that in Glorantha, the spells of Fanaticism, Demoralise, Morale are clearly magical; in the real world, these states are not considered magical but psychological; there is therefore a difference between Glorantha and the real world. And that's exactly what the sentence I quoted above says.
> To say that 'Fanaticism' is the same thing as 'being really angry' is to not
> compatible with rules as they stand now.
Phew! Glad nothing I said made that crass mistake, then!
> To take Fanaticism as an example... its a spell.
Yes. And...?
I believe you're disagreeing with what you *think* I said, rather than what I said.
HOPLITES >> I'm very pleased with the way the Cult of the Granite Phalanx gave rune >> spells for hoplites to explain the mechanics of their way of fighting...
> Its public knowledge that I hated it.
Not to me.
> I hated it because it seemed to me to completely devalue the fact that they
> are trained hoplites, not just guys with spells.
Not at all! In order to be able to form a Shield Wall, you have to be part of a trained and dedicated unit of Hoplites (as initiates of Granite Phalanx are known), giving up 90% of your time devoted to the rituals of the cult (square-bashing, marching cross-country, practicing pike drill). The Granite Phalanx aren't just "guys with spells" -- they're a full-time regiment of a professional army. Or do you also hate it that Storm Khans aren't *real* Berserks, only "guys with spells", completely devaluing the fact that they are frothing lunatics?
> To me, forming a shield wall should be something that seems like a good idea
> simply using the combat system if you have the appropriate training...
There's the "if". I'm proposing that some key elements of this "appropriate training" (an understanding of and willingness to participate in the rituals of hoplite warfare) can be looked on as a cultic secret, enhanceable by Magic, just as the "appropriate training" to run frothing into battle against Chaos is a cultic secret of the Storm Bull. Nobody is saying that Gloranthans *can't* fight angrily against Chaos without casting Berserk: they're just less effective, is all. Likewise with shield walls.
> It seems to me like a cheap trick, to have the training and tactics
> involved in a phalanx reduced to a quickly learned spell...
Who said "cheap" or "quickly learned"? Join the Lunar Army, serve for 27 years, *then* tell me it was easy! You still need your own weapon skills to participate in any battle (unless you reduce these to the "quickly learned spell" of Bladesharp 20). You need to participate in Phalanx rituals (drills, manoeuvres and training) if you want to maintain the ability to use the formation ("regain the rune spells once cast").
> The Standfast spell (for example) can in theory be used on anyone on the
> casters front... in my game I remove the 'only in on Hoplite in front'
> restriction on Standfast...
What? You first create a problem, then blame us for it? Fie, foolish youth! Standfast should only be cast on hoplites standing in front of you in a shield wall, as the spell says. Take that away, and any abuses that become possible are your own fault.
> The spells contain all sorts of things in their descriptions that are very
> specific to Hoplite combat...
They are the spells of a Hoplite cult. Is this so foolish? Should we complain that Storm Bull spells are to do with fighting chaos, Humakt spells with swords and death?
> ...and are designed to force the Hoplites to maintain formation for magical
> reasons - when the Hoplites should stay in formation because it is the
sensible
> Hoplite tactic, without which they may well die.
And which in the *magical* world of Glorantha is reinforced by a tangible magical benefit for fighting in formation.
I'd suggest reading Victor Davis Hanson's "The Western Way of War" and the collected essays on "Hoplites" he edited for a more psychological look at hoplite culture. You seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on how *easy* it is to stand in a giant, armed rugby scrum, pinned in front of the enemy and wholly reliant on your comrades' support to prevent yourself from being killed, without first wondering why anyone would want to do such a stupid thing. Granite Phalanx tells you it's possible. Granite Phalanx knows the secrets of hoplite warfare, and imparts them to his followers. It is because we hoplites are One in Granite Phalanx that we can prevail!
(A rules note: if you think it's too quick and easy to gain rune magic, that's a separate issue altogether. Don't confuse it with this one cult writeup. If I wanted to, and had priestly connivance, I could join Storm Bull on Freezeday and be a Berserker on Clayday: surely just as abusive as "instant hoplite syndrome"!).
(Another rules note: while retaining everything from Granite Phalanx, I am tempted to add that "form a shield wall" should be a combat option, like Attack or Parry or Dodge. What you do is carry your large shield slung to protect your left arm, chest and abdomen. Then wear bronze plate greaves and a helmet. Then stand next to someone on your right side who's also carrying a large shield, and announce your combat actions are to "Attack and Shield Wall" -- his large shield now protects your right arm, and you've got oodles of armour points covering every area of your body).
GOD LEARNERS
> I think the God Learners are demonised a little less than the Nazis in general
- -
> their crimes are seen as more of criminal stupidity and hubris rather than
evil.
Partly true. But our best source contains the following descriptions:
: Any player character exhibiting unrealistic knowledge of Glorantha, knowledge : suspiciously greater than his position or experience would imply, is under : suspicion of holding God Learner beliefs and magic, with subsequent distrustand
: No one speaks well of the God Learners. Everything they stood for, brought to
their
: territory, or that is imagined to have come from them, is feared and shunned.
Their
: ruined cities are haunted. Their magics are thought evil. The unity they
sought is
: believed to be a cruel illusion fostered by the Jester King. They are now
often
: regarded as a mistake of history, miseries done by ancestors whose actions
: embarrass the living.
I completely agree that some things the God Learners did were "good", and that more were done with the very best intentions. But I suspect that saying so today (in Third Age Glorantha), against the widespread popular opinions I quoted above, would mark you out as something similar to a Nazi apologist or denier of the Holocaust: a pariah, holding socially unacceptable views. The whole God Learner Experiment has been judged a failure: those parts of it that survive (like Werner Von Braun's rocket programme, or the Cult of the Invisible God) do so in part by denying their heritage, or denying that they were "tainted" by the extremes into which their forebears lapsed.
> I suspect that your average Rokari might get a shock if he asked the senior
church
> historians about who was a God Learner, and discovered that many of the
revered
> Church Fathers were, for example.
I agree.
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #453
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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