>> The Lunar Empire will try to dissect everything that is good about chaos, and Malia's ability to heal is one of those things. <<
I think the majority opinion on this digest was that Malia was not per se chaotic.
>> You can imagine "Healing Square" (or it's equivalent) in Glamour with it's temples to Deezola, Chalana Arroy, Teelo Norri and Malia all side by side and working happily
together ("Disease? No no no, I'm a Chalana Arroy Healer -- you want to see
the disease specialist next door in Malia's temple"). <<
Malia as in the cult writeups would be in the above arrangment only so that she would be in the best possible situation to avenge herself against her sworn and ancient enemies. As well as to propigate her children.
Brian Curley on Malia & evil
>> I have a pretty good idea that Peter was asking a question of objective
"good" or "evil", but I think that has little relevance..... Anything that kills indiscriminately would be viewed as evil or the tool of an evil being. <<
Writes my opinion better than I did :)
Peter Metcalfe
>> The ultimate point was not whether the culture's perceptions of disease being evil is a legitimate belief to hold but whether it is possible for a diety which represents a force 'that kills indiscriminately' to be a constructive member of society. <<
Objectively, death brings about freeing of resources and offers scope for others to grow and flourish. Death is change. On a personal basis, loved ones are removed from us. Humaktis do this with cause, honour and forthrighteousness. If you don't agree wit h their reasons, you can at least understand them. Malia brings about death _much_ differently to Humakt. The effect of death is the same, the method of execution is different, and it is the method of execution which is important for distinguishing subjec tive evil, good or somewhere inbetween. If Malia _only_ did the cleanup work after death, I do not think we would be having this discussion as to whether or not she is evil.
>> Furthermore not all diseases cause death, Sniffles being a good example. <<
Ah, but it would if left to its own devices.Our health, spirit or whatever normally overpowers the minor disease spirits. The young and infirm are more likely to be more seriously affected.
>> The Good Gods are fighting against Malia? They would be breaking the Cosmic Compromise if they did so. Malia is part of the natural world. <<
The gods can continue to act indirectly through their agents, as does Malia.
>> And yet the RW disease masters who work with them are seen as forces of Good, are they not? Why cannot we have an analogue with these noble people in glorantha? <<
The RW 'disease masters' are the equivalents of CA, Teelo Norri, Ernalda healers etc. on Glorantha who battle diseases, not propigate them.
>> 'To stop the creeping chills ravaging you this winter, I recommend you go to Malia Theresa (brill name that) and ask her to fill you with a special healing spirit to ward the illness off'. <<
Of the following I'm sure. If asked, the CA healers could provide a result at least as efficacious as proprietaty worship. However, it probably wouldn't be as cost effective.
>> Forget the Malia Writeup in Lords of Terror. The issue is whether Malia could be a Healing Cult. If she can be a healing cult then what is to prevent her worship? <<
Malia has changed (warped) from her original healing and growth beginnings. It is true that she can now give _some_ effectiveness against disease. But this does not in itself a healing cult make.
>> Perhaps if David had taken the trouble to read the beginning of the thread, he would have seen that the original idea was Sandy's.<<
That Malia was a healing cult in the lunar empire was the main point in Sandys' post to which I took exception. Only after careful deliberation and reading I made the post to argue against it as it was presented. I also remembered Sandys' post ages ago, where he said few people took an opposite viewpoint, but this is probably because his posts are of such high quality and carry such weight. That last comment is to apologise for bringing him back into a debate where he has been absent.
>> I am saying that the belief of Malia as the Foul Mistress of Disease as described in the CoT is a similar construct which can be modified and is in some parts of the Lunar Empire. <<
What's in a name if a thorn no longer acts as a thorn. But it is does get confusing and IMHO unecessarily complicated. My arguments against Malia as a healing cult are and were based on the cult as being portrayed as in the cult writeup, and the nature of Malia herself.
Kneejerk reaction. Bring back the monomyth. ;)
Speaking of god learners....
Aden Steinke
me >>> What are the Gloranthan (non chaotic) societies which don't prima facie outlaw Malia? <<<
>> Just because the narrow minded bigots of the Orlanth pantheon have poisoned
the minds of much of the rest of the world does not mean Mallia is evil, by
excluding chaotic societies from the question you are creating a frame of
reference based on narrow sectional interest and bigotry!!!!! Fight for
enlightenment, open your mind! <<
Actually, I had intended for the question to include nearly all of Glorantha save Dorastor. I henceforth believe Aden supports the vast sectional interest of illuminated godlearnering chaos montrosities :-)
Brian (who remembers very clearly the effect of the last disease which hospitalised him) fantome_at_ozemail.com.au <SPACE RESERVED FOR RENT>
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