>Since everyone else is jumping into this one (with utter disregard for rules
>1 and 3, I might add)
And me having remained silent so far...
>2. Esrolia has lots of farmers (not noted for being top-knotch soldiers
>without considerable training).
A good point, and one to question. Does Esrolia have carl-type farmers, or rather cottars, or thralls ("serfs" in Western)?
I'd say this depends. The northern borders and the Skyreach valleys are likely to have near-Sartarite carl farmers, whose clans are ruled by women as much as men. This is where the Colymar hail from, IMO. Porthomeka and other areas settled by foreigners may have cottar-type farmers, but then the Ditali are ruled by Malkioni overlords, hence are something between thrall and cottar, and yet were efficient enough at the Lion Kings' Feast, 1616.
>3. Esrolia has not been conquered except by The Only Old One, the EWF, the
>God Learners (well, they invaded, anyway), the Pharaoh, and, in the near
>future, the Lunar Empire.
IMO Esrolia was conquered by none of these.
The OOO became patron of the women in the Grey Age before the Dawn, some time after the Sword and Helm catastrophe bereft (northeastern) Esrolia of its men and rulers. He inherited it from his mother.
The EWF originated in Nochet, and never conquered Esrolia, but grew out of it.
The GLs invaded, but didn't catch hold of the entire land. I don't know about the western provinces, but the east remained the OOO's territory.
The Pharaoh didn't conquer the land, but tricked himself into the position of the ruler during the harvest rite (by not having the decency to remain dead after being sacrificed).
The Lunars establish a military presence in Esrolia (through the Grazeland mercenary army), but haven't conquered it enough to collect taxes. Tribute or plunder at best.
>1. Esrolia is not Egypt. There are tempting parallels (lots of farmers
>raising lots of grain, ancient and presitigious culture). However, Egypt
>got conquered by lots and lots of people, especially after Alexander. What
>makes Esrolia different from Egypt? (or any other farming-intensive culture
>of ancient Earth).
Its earth magic, which is strongly tied to the sovereignty over the land. Not just in the military sense.
>3. The Esrolian army is made up of male soldiers with female officers. How
>do they keep the army from mutinying and putting a man into power?
> b. Conditioning. Just as the British army followed officers of a
>higher social class than the grunts for centuries, Esrolian men are used to
>taking orders from women officers.
Essentially, the Esrolite militia is commanded by noblewomen or at least a warrioress-nobility. How does any nobility keep its militia from mutinying and putting a commoner into power? By their power over the defenseless family members... Nothing about gender in this, IMO - Brithini or early Malkioni Talars were as feeble in combat as untrained landholding women (those least likely to act as officers).
>From: MSmylie_at_aol.com
>Martin wrote, in his first post on this topic:
>>(1). Irregardless of anything else, women are statistically weaker
>>than men.
>Hmm; I suppose this might be generally true if you played with a different
>set of characteristic rolls for women and men; as someone that does not,
>however, I'm not going to find that a very effective argument, I'm afraid.
Even if you use equal stat dice (phie, roolz!), male characters will put more effort into STR than APP, except perhaps Esrolite males. (On the other hand, Vogarth Strongman seems to be an Esrolite Silver Age hero.) Female characters will more likely be happy with more average STR and SIZ (especially if you use the combined method as per RQ3).
>the Lion King's Feast, and if anyone has more info on that Esrolian military
>disaster, please post it or let me know about the sources on that one
No sources, but since it was an important event in the recent history of Heortland, I made up some info on the participants from Heortland. I found it likely that some of the closest relatives of the last Hendriki king of Heortland were killed in this expedition for their liege lord, the Pharaoh, killing off most of the heirs in the queue. Other than this, DW28 is the best offer we have.
>In fact, I would be more than willing to suggest that in addition to Orlanth
>and Yelm, there is plenty of room in Esrolian cosmology for any number of
>war-like consort cults: Elmal
Pray tell me the difference between the husband cults of Yelm and Elmal.
>and Zorak Zoran
As likely a consort as Ragnaglar, IMO.
>wyter-like regiment cults,
Scarce. The Lunars were unique in this use of communal magic, except for exotic (secret) organisations with strong natural wyters, IMO - like the Storm Walkers of Sartar or the Earth Shakers of Old Tarsh. Most other cult-like regiments were likely Humakti (ok, give them some near-heroic former commander as spirit of reprisal). Magically strong regiments with an active, worshipped wyter were introduced by Argrath (copied from Praxian secret societies, as per French edition of NG?) and copied by the Tarsh Exiles of Wintertop. Esrolia likely has only a few earth cults with comparable units, less than post-1625 Sartar.
>heroic sons of dead Genert,
Entruli is as dead as Entru...
>consort-sons of Esrola or Ernalda,
Only Old One. That's most of it, AFAIK.
Babeester Gor is not a commanders' cult, not even in Esrolia. An IMO more likely cult for commanders in Esrolia would be Lhankor Mhy - strategists drawn from the few men who keep their beards despite the ruling females' preferences, and their fellow female scholars. LM is noted as a commanders' cult in the Gods War, read the Thanatar write-up.
>As Ian noted, that "macho male" army (and given the role of folks like Jareel
>and the Sister's Army, and cults like Yara Aranis, I'm not entirely sure how
>"macho" or "male" that army really is) got its ass kicked at the Building
>Wall Battle.
Yes. It concentrated on eliminating the quite helpless male militia units and failed to recognize the wall-building magic, after which the (precious few) Esrolite and other Pharaonic elite units encircled the charge-crazed Lunars faced with the wall, and cut them off from behind.
>Indeed, the very fact that the Wall was being Built could be
>used to glean insights into Esrolian military culture: a heavy emphasis on
>fortifications (using forts to break up the smooth space of farmland to
>counter raiding parties, as Ian suggested),
>the ability to organize large
>numbers of people and considerable wealth for military projects
Expending a considerable number of people in wars to cover the rest is a well-known earth cult strategy. Genert pulverized the Copper People in his Garden to cover a retreat. Likewise the Esrolite militiamen often get forlorn hope missions, to be cut down just to buy time.
>(further
>supported by the existence of a Holy Country fleet; navies are amongst the
>most expensive and draining military projects for a nation to undertake --
>and as a sidenote, I suspect their defeat at the hands of the Wolf Pirates
>has more to do with Harrek The Ultimately Undefeatable than anything else),
The Holy Country navy was sponsored and crewed mainly by the (Rightarm) Isles, who received great revenues out of their trade fleet built since 1581.
>and a garrison tradition at minimum (you don't build a Big Wall unless you've
>got the standing troops to man it -- no pun intended).
IMO they inserted the troops into the wall, letting their spirits man the battlements forever. I posted this theory about two years ago...
Anyway, the Building Wall wasn't crewed more intensely than the Limes in southern Germany or the Danewerk in southern Denmark - a few forts at the gates, just sufficiently manned to withstand a raid at the fort, and to patrol the length of the wall. The main function of both the Limes, the Danewerk and the Building Wall (after the battle, that is) is to slow any invader who has to cross it, not to prevent them from crossing. Not even the strongly manned Hadrian's Wall could achieve this.
>Under normal circumstances, I would suspect that internal Esrolian squabbles,
>while at the direction of the various Queens, would be handled by
>predominantly (but not entirely) male armies
Mostly by murderers. I suppose Esrolia is the only non-Lunar country able to participate in a Dart competition.
>composed of _well-trained_
Humakti...
>hoplite-style
Rather Swiss-guard or Macedon style, IMO - rather lightly armoured, but with long pikes, and long axes in the third and fourth rank.
>militias,
There ain't such a thing as a well-trained militia except around military colonies, like the Romans established in Eburacum (York) by granting land to veterans. The only areas to sport these I know of in the region are Ethirist's Blackhorse County, Wulfland in Sartar and the Orindori lands in Tarsh.
Esrolite militia likely will call in lots of thrall-type spear-fodder, the luckier ones receiving a tiny copper square as breastplate, and a wall-shield like the ones forming the crenellation of parts of the Building Wall IMO.
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