Peter Metcalfe on the Esrolian military:
>Esrolia's only just achieved independence recently and hasn't done very
>well.
> Prior to this, their record is not brilliant.
Why does everyone home in on the Esrolite military all of the time? Its hardly an important, or even valued, part of their culture? Why are you guys getting fidgety over their armys competence or incompetence? The Esrolites aint.
Good army or not, the fact remains that the Esrolite culture has survived for centuries, and has often absorbed its invaders. Why, recently the demise of the Pharaoh has allowed the Year Son rituals to be reinstated - resulting in bumper grain harvests!
Could this success perhaps be something to do with the fact that the rulers of Esrolia do not find war, conflict, conquest, optimisation of combat troops, or techniques in penis enlargement of great value?
The army is possibly the least important Esrolite political tool when facing an invader. Indeed, it is sometimes best to allow the invader to defeat you in battle, either to lull them into a false sense of security, or so that their male pride and ego are boosted and they leave more quickly.
Male Babeester Gori. Why do boys always want to join the girlie cults? Only women may join Babeester Gor. This is clearly stated in GoG.
The Onslaught continues:
What? His stats *werent* a joke?
Its been a rather long-winded way of proposing that Humakti are not Paladins. Well, I don't believe that they are all Paladins, or even most of them. Did anyone say they always were?
Rule of thumb: If you want to get an idea of how Humakti act then the last thing you should do is base them on other peoples player characters! PCs are not the norm and never will be. The danger is that people begin to believe that the likes of Arreth or Onslaught is the way every Humakti behaves.
Tarry Higgins on Onslaught:
>I don't see why he shouldn't retain his Divine magic at all, what cult vows
>or practices has be broken?
This depends on the attitude of his priest and/or commanding officer, which is influenced by the beliefs, traditions and customs of the temple/regiment, which are themselves heavily influenced by cultural norms.
In my Glorantha, Onslaught wouldnt retain his magic because hes a thief, a murderer, an assassin, and a deserter. He has no Humakti roots, no pride, and no swordbrothers to support him. Hes lost his perspective on life and death, and his honour. He is an apostate.
Mike Cule argues in a similar vein, except he also says:
>And this is where I disagree again. Humakt isn't just a token or an idea. He's
>a person with his own ideas about what is right and what is wrong. And he can
>take an active part in keeping his followers on the straight and narrow.
There is no one true way of Humakti worship directly controlled by the god. Originally, there probably was a correct way of worship, but centuries of evolution and change mean that it is lost and differences in belief do exist between temples, especially the more geographically distant they are. Usually these are influenced by the local cultural attitudes to death and to war. A very simple example is the banning of Lottery Swords everywhere but in the Holy Country. More fundamental issues would be the attitudes to Chaos or Resurrection. The Humakti in Dorastor and Talastar have a very liberal attitude to the former, while followers of the Makla Mann sub-cult have extreme views on the latter.
But this isnt carte blanche to allow Humakti to believe in whatever the hell they want. There are common threads running through all Humakti, those of Death, Honour and Truth. The emphasis on each of these may be different, but they will be there. In Heortland the emphasis is greater on Truth and Honour, probably influenced by western concepts of chivalry. In Sartar there is a strong emphasis on Death.
What I think needs to be stressed is the role of the temple/regiment in preaching, fostering, and policing this through their customs and traditions (not to mention the peer pressure of your battle comrades). The regimental temple defines your beliefs and you dedicate yourself to it unto Death.
I think Martin Laurie was groping towards some of this with his SAS story. Perhaps those guys were taciturn because of their shared battle experience, something that only those who were there could understand. Comrades and peer pressure are a major force in making people fight. Secondly, they were SAS, the elite, and the Yank talking to them wasnt. The SAS have a great unit pride, fostered by the regiments own unique customs and rituals.
Humakti would exhibit many of the same characteristics.
But, back to paladins. If a regiments ethos is one that embraces chivalric concepts, then they will take great unit pride in defending the weak and helping old ladies across the street. So paladin-types can exist.
However, this is all a far cry from Onslaught the lone Humakti killer.
Martin Laurie
>You argue that Onslaught and his ilk would have no place in
>Glorantha because they are not honourable according
>to Humakt and the culture around them? I'm not so sure
>about this. Killers exist in every culture, modern, middle ages or ancient.
Of course they exist, and the culture limits their actions or punishes them. In Sartarite culture Death is seen as Orlanths sword, as his honourable and truthful brother who severed his kinship when Yelm was foully assassinated. Sartarite Humakti therefore serve Orlanth and have a belief in honour and truth - - and an aversion to assassins.
What is your argument here? Are you saying that Onslaught is an honourable Humakti because hes a Gloranthan serial killer? Or because he gets paid for his assassination work? Or because Sartar has been invaded and as a result Orlanthi culture and mores have broken down completely? I would dispute all of these.
Humakti sword broos in Dorastor...
Mike Cule:
>I think that you'll find that those fellows are Illuminated, which breaks all
>the rules.
I don't think theyre illuminated. The purest form of the god is neutral vis a vis chaos since Death is a universal truth to humans as well as to chaos. Its really up to the locals to decide what sort of cultural veneer and rules of war are needed to make his worship acceptable. In Sartar that involves no Humakti broos and chaos, but thats the Orlanthi culture, and not Death, talking.
Yknow Onslaught would be fully acceptable to the Kingdom of War Humakti...
All Hail the Reaching Moon!
David Hall
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #519
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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