Hellenistic empire

From: D M McNamara <D.M.McNamara_at_durham.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:55:29 +0100 (BST)


 Peter Metcalfe...
 I do not really wish to see the glorantha page degenerate into a forum for quibbling on RW history, but some of the things you said do seem untenable......
  The Hellenistic empire infact used GIGANTIC amounts of slaves, certainly not as many as the romans, but still enough to actually designate it primarily a slave mode of production. Read 'G.E.M. de Ste. Croix' for the singular scale of slave shennanigans....greece in the classical period saw influxes of tens of thousands of slaves during periods of war. Of course, in any society there was never a *total* slave mode...other methods of accumulating capital happened alongside, its just that use of slaves tends to make the other methods somewhat uneconomic in the long term.
  In my first email i stressed the import of the long term. In saying that the lunars need to expand, i did not mean that they have to constantly rumble their borders forward every second of the day. Its just that *if* they had a similar economy to the romans (which many of you appear to disagree with anyway), their economic development is more 'extensive' in nature..........Marius reports the standard legionnaires equipment as consisting of road building tools as much as weapons and food. Therefore, ultimately, unless they radically revolutionised themselves, they will suffer problems when they reach certain geographical and economic limits. feudalism was more 'intensive' in nature ie. 'cash farming' via taxing land-tied peasantry, rational use of technology, powerful and belligerent church, etc.

   You obviously also do not agree with the economic necessity of invading Britain. I did not want to do this, as it will be tedious, but here is a fraction of the evidence.....caesars itinerary's, 4 other roman itinerary's, roman tax reports, extensive use of oppida (trading centres most likely) throughout hillfort dominated zone, lack of roman occupation of unfertile and unproductive parts of UK (wales, scotland...the climate was drier then), roman accounts of desperate need to conquer britons, economic decline (look at precious metal content and devaluation in coins) stopped by invasion years, few hundred years of prosperity as britain is economically developed...then gradual decline as markets start to fail, economi c devlopment of london and york (HUGE wooden wharves built in york), extensive settlement of retired legionairres all over britain, britain commemorated on medals as being the 'breadbasket' of rome (only place not shattered by civil strife later), fortification of saxon shore to defend economic power of london, YEARS od trading with barbarians before the invasions, field systems developed and revolutionised throughout britain, GIGANTIC AND CRIPPLING cost of invasion (see martin Millett's calculations)...it must have been thought worth it, desperate searching by roman navy for more productive land beyond Britain (they find iceland, but it is obviously worthless)....by then it was too late, the romans were fighting amongst themselves, emporers were draining the coffers, the barbarians at the borders seized the opportunity, roman generals joined them and raided their own people....it was a nasty and inglorious way for the empire to go.   Dominic.


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