> Now, what I would like to know about the whole thing is for someone
>to give a convincing explanation of the 'every 600 years you have come' bit
>I.e. a good theory for who the last three appearances are, rather than just
>the last one.
Well the Devil's appearance in the Second Age was probably that Chaos invasion which engulfed Slontos before the Luatha sunk it.
Simon Phipp:
Me>> And if [Yelmalio] is the forest sun why does he need to be a
>> physical person instead of an aspect of the Sun himself?
>Because he did. Why did the Sun appear as a person, or the Moon, or
>the Earth or the Dark Sky or the Oceans?
Did the Sun appear as a person? Many people in Glorantha believe that he did not (including the Dara Happans themselves for some time in history - cf the 'Gods are not Men' Philosophy).
What you are failing to do is to distingish the people who embodied gods on earth as being different from the Gods themselves. A person who knew Solar Magic during the Great Darkness will IMO be worshipped as a Sun God by his followers in furture generations irregardless of whether another person in a different land does the same thing.
As a historical example: The Ralians believe that the Sun is Ehilm who appeared to them as a historical person. They do not know anybody called Yelm nor do they have any myth of Ehilm going over the Mountains. Ehilm came from Brithos, ruled and was killed in Ralios. I've also mentioned Manimat.
>This is the whole point of my argument. Yelmalio is not "an aspect of the
>Sun", he is The Forest Sun, or the Mountain Sun or whatever.
Huh? A gloranthan looks at the sun, he only sees only *one* Sun, not the forest sun, not the mountain sun. A 'forest sun' god and a 'mountain sun' god are therefore aspects of the Sun. I find it stange that you reject the Yelmalio being an aspect of the Sun when you try and claim that Elmal, Kuschile et al. are distorted remembrances of Yelmalio.
IMO the Gods are to some extent projections of the human psyche upon the elements themselves. For example, if I call upon the storm for War Magic, I do not go to Entekos or Molanni but instead go to Vinga, Orlanth or Urox. This is even though the ultimate force behind their magic is Storm.
>> But can an aspect become a minor god and so forth? Orlanth has replaced
>> Umath as the Great God of Storm and nobody worships Aether anymore.
>Orlanth has not replaced Umath. Umath was God of All Storms.
He has replaced him in the ownership of the Storm Rune (whatever that means). Umath is no longer a Great God of Storm.
>I would say that when a Hero becomes an Aspect of a god and progresses to
>being a minor god, as happens in the Lunar Pantheon, for instance, the main
>god merely sheds that aspect so that it is worshipped alone (eg Yelm and
>Saggitus, The Red Goddess and Hon-Eel).
And what if the God sheds all its aspects? Does it cease to be a major god?
>> Arkat's cult is _bigger_ than the Yelmalio Cult described in Sun County and
>> so is that of the Red Emperor IMO.
>Arkat's cult was great when he was around, but look at it now - a splintered
>remnant, made up of people who do not even believe the same things as other
>Arkati. This is hardly a cult.
Each one of those cults is *greater* than the Yelmalio Cult in Sun County. This is on par with arguing that Christianity is not greater than Jainism because Jainism is relatively unified as compared to the myriad christian cults who do not even believe the same things as other christians.
>The Red Emperor has a cult which is bigger than Yelmalio's, but once again,
>he is still around. How big do you think his cult is after Sheng Seleris
>makes Red Stew?
Um? Sheng Seleris has already made Red Stew out of the original Red Emperor the first time he came around. The current Emperors are people who claim to be him.
Simon>>>Glorantha is special precisely because the myths happened.
Sombody>> No, that is one of several conflicting world views in Glorantha.
>True, the Brithini believe there were no gods, that everyone in Godtime was a
>bad sorcerer who strayed from the paths. Of course, they are wrong.
You can't say that the Brithini are wrong while maintaining at the same time all the myths in glorantha are absolutely right. For instance, the story the Brithini tell about Ehilm is also a gloranthan myth and it is *true*.
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