I don't know much about Lodril in Caladraland or Jolar, but among the Pelandans (who call him Turos) and the Pelorians he is the Volcano god, the Farmer god, the peasant god, and the grandfather god, all at the same time, and several other things besides (lord of the underworld, for example). Lodril is a particularly bad example to choose, because he does have a very complex mythology and history, and lots of interesting associations.
He is not all these things among the Doraddi (who wouldn't really understand what you mean by peasant), and I am not really sure what they think of him there (for a start, do they call him Lodril, and if they do is this evidence of Six-Legged Empire era God learneris?). But I am almost certain that Lodril in Caladraland is a largely God Learner, the ancestry for the Twin gods being added at the same time the cults where combined (known definately to be God Leaner actions).
>Or is Lodril another
>of your composite deities, made up of several little gods?
Lodril is the best documented example we have of a god who has many aspects, and whose modern cult combines many cults that were originally separate.
He is currently worshipped in two aspects in Peloria, that are known to be related by the worshippers. Turos of modern Carmania, and Lodril of modern Peloria.
Extinct or subsumed deities that no longer exist except as an
aspect/ incarnation of the modern Lodril or Turos include
Blows From Within - from Rinliddi
Worship replaced by Lodril in time of Kentingatha/Eats Women. Like
Lodril but rebellious and special magic inversion killing power.
Perakosus - from Darjiin
Son is Suvar, whose son is Verondum who befriends SurenSlib. Name means
Grandfather, and worshippers used volcanic magic.
ViSaruDaran - Wendaria (very ancient Carmania), heat from within, and
raiser of mountains. Conquers Monster man to become lord of the
underworld.
DiDalaDaran - old man god, fights water gods with volcanic power (they win,
forming Oronin lake).
Turos - Pelandan (fairly ancient Carmanian) god of Power, from fire
mountain, god of heat, and conquers monster man.
There is a lot more to it than this, as well. There are other aspects that are now probably forgotten or nearly (ViSaruDaran and Perakosus were originally also associated with obsidian chipping, for example, which was an important skill at the time, and several are associated with painting).
So it would appear that I am argueing against Mark, saying that all the 'Lodril' gods are aspects of the same god. And so I am. It is not as if there is a volcano god here, and all the others are aspects of the volcano god. There is a god of volcanos, mountains, male power, peasants, male fertility, conquering the underworld, obsidian chipping, old men, etc. that the others are aspects of, a god that we might as well call Lodril.
But I actually think that both the view Simon is argueing for (that the different gods are devolved parts of bigger gods) and the view he is argueing against (that gods are aspects of the same fundamental big god) are an oversimplification of what happens in Glorantha. I think both are sometimes true. Antirius is a good example of the first. The various Lodril gods are good examples of the second. But neither has to be true - and neither is clearly true in the case of the various [Kh][Y]Elmal[io] deities (just wanted to use that astouding linguistic construction myself - wow!).
And I think there are a lot of reasons why neither works consistently. Basically, I don't think either is a universal truth of Gloranthan myth (i.e. two similar deities are not necessarily related in either way). Both are near universal patterns that occur over and over, though. What I think does happen, is that heroquesting really does change the heroplane. And belief really can change the heroplane (maybe only by influencing heroquesters, maybe not. In practice, its imposible to tell for things in the deep past). And changes to the heroplane are what make new gods real. Sometimes heroquesters do their exploratory heroquesting, find new myths (that are actually myths of another culture) and thus discover that their deity is like another. Sometimes they heroquest, and find some new patterns that are part of another deities path, but only part. And sometimes they do this in such a way (combining paths from two deities that have other differences, for example, or creating brand new paths) that their god cannot easily be identified with another. There are some myths that are so big and powerful (the first death, the sun going to the underworld) that echoes of them occur over and over again. But this does not mean that deities whose myths incorporate these bigger patterns are necessarily related in any simple way.
No one said heroquesting was easy! Its not just difficult in mundane ways, it is also full of subtle complications, like working out which foreign myths might work for your deity. Which is why most people repeat the same ones over and over again - because they know they don't fully understand what they are doing, so its best to stick to the tried and true.
Some other random observations
>In fact, I do not think the Ostrich Riders
>originated in Prax, I think they came from Dara Happa and fled the floods, or
>left for another reason.
Interesting, as avilry (like cavalry, but on large birds, for anyone who hasn't come across this cool term) was definately known in Dara Happa very early, though is now extinct.
Cheers
David
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