David Cake:
> And most of the other stuff in the conclusion was rubbish as
>well... I definately recall thinking the version of Argraths ancestry given
>was pretty unlikely.
I get the feeling that the Fourth Age author of KoS was putting forward outrageous ideas no-one else agreed with.
Simon Phipp:
>Sorry, but not all the Gods died. "Argrath, the Spider Spirit and the other
>few which had survived " is the quote from KOS. These gods are presumably the
>ones who had the sense not to take the net to catch the devil "What, me take
>hold of that net and catch the Devil while you hide behind a rock with a
>sword? No way, matey."
So, which gods survived? I reckon that all Tricksters and Theif aspects, plus Zorak Zoran (who wanted no part of the Compromise and was probabley sulking in the corner of Hell somwhere), would survive. Then again, the line "Argrath, the Spider Spirit and the other few which had survived" may refer to his companions who were not gods. This sorta tallies with Arkat giving his companions the pieces of Gbaji.
>Thirdly, the Gods were walking around when the Moon fell, so that would leave
>the way open for Chaos to appear in force. I think that destroying the Moon
>broke the Compromise, since the Red Goddess was part of the Compromise, and
>let far worse things than the Lunar Empire in through the back door.
Here's a thought, if the gods were walking around in the time of the Monster Empire then maybe, instead of going to Hell to throw the Net that captured all the gods and the Devil killed them etc.... then maybe the gods came to Argrath! The final battle may have been really titanic as the gods walked the Cosmos again, and Argath, a mere mortal, would have been insignificant.
>> In the Monster Empire, this council is replaced by evil and/or chaotic
>beings to make a new "Black"
>> Emperor.
>
>There is no evidence, that I see, of Sheng Seleris being made up of a number
>of people, nor of him being different at the end of the war than at the
>start. I think that Sheng Seleris incarnated the powers of the Red Emperor's
>shadow and became the Shadow Emperor. After all, the Red Emperor was the
>legitimate Emperor of Dara Happa. After he was killed, the Shadow Moon Empire
>formed, with the Shadow Emperor at its head. When he was killed, the Moster
>Empire was formed with nobody in charge.
Oh, sorry, misunderstood. I meant that Sheng Seleris abused the Council and derived power thereof. As you say, Sheng was the Shadow Emperor and the Black Emperor is a seperate entity (Ralzakark IMO).
> [DESCRIPTION OF AN UZUZ's IDEA TO STOP THE CURSE OF WOE]
>Whoops, is talking about players and characters and game aims suitable for
>the Gloranthan Digest? Maybe not, I don't know how it slipped in there
Personally, I was intrested and want to know how it goes.
Hal Bowman:
> My efforts to piece this together haven't done too well, and I don't have
>KoS. Frankly, after this week's postings, I'm not sure I could
>understand it....
Don't worry, KoS only gets confusing the second time you read it...
John Brown:
>> I think that destroying the Moon
>>broke the Compromise, since the Red Goddess was part of the Compromise
>
>Uhhh...The Red Moon Goddess is NOT part of the compromise. She was made AFTER
>time started and thus could not possibly have been part of the agreement that
>created time. Any Gloranthaphile will tell you that. If anything, the
>presence of the Red Moon threatens the Compromise.
The Red Moon is part of the Compromise, ever since the Battle of Castle Blue -- no source disagrees with that. Anyway, the Compromise only appears in Orlanthi POV, and not the Dara Happan (and therfore probabley Lunar) POV.
Nick:
>OTOH, the Timeline is a suspect document. IMG, I feel inclined to date the end
>of Argrath's Saga to 1654 rather than 1725: saying that the Hero we've been
>waiting for since RQ2 has arrived at last, but none of your PCs are going to be
>alive when he starts doing anything interesting (as he'll rule for 100 years)
>seems inherently foolish to me!
If your players can live from 1615-ish (the beginning of a lot of RQ2 campaigns) to 1654, it'd be a mean feat anyway! Personally, it's just another challenge to see how inventive players can be to ensure that they will have their pet characters there for the big showdown between Argrath and the Devil/Red GOddess. Try immortality, or Hero Cults, or failing a HQ...
BTW, don't use "Argrath's Saga" as bible, it's mainly pomp and epic rubbish
made up as a composite of two other saga's which were in turn distilled
versions of a first version which was written two hundred years after the
event, with very few written records to refer to due to the Illiteracy Era.
Any historian would throw this source in the bin, it's too far down the line
to be seen as accurate.
Oh, I don't think Harshax refers to trolls, the Elder Races are virtually
unseen in the Fourth Age as humanity is the primary force. IMO the trolls
migrate en masse to Statham Well as part of Dagori Inkarth's great plan.
Nick E.
Britain is Dorastor without broo
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