>One of the characters in my campaign wants to be the best smith in
>Ralios. (He's already quite good.) As an Orlanthi, he recently
>became initiated to Gustbran the Smith. Unfortunately, Gustbran is
>a tiny cult...
Pfah! One doesn't become a Great Smith by praying to the likes of Gustbran or Vrang 2Jhomang! Does Volund ever pray to the AEsir when he crafts his swords? Did Regin? Did Daedalus ever sacrifice to Hephaestus? No! The key to crafting Great Things is mastering the craft and learning the secrets of embodying great forces within them.
Go to the Dwarves. Steal their notebooks if need be. One could adopt the trick by the Slarge in Elder Secrets of travelling from town to town and challenging the smiths to a duel. Use exotic materials (Water of Diamond for Temper etc). The Great Smith would be more of an independant magician than a Priest praying to a deified two-bit Tinker.
>So I think it's likely that the events before the Dawn truly cannot be
>accurately dated. Whether you think this is because of mythical reasons
>(there was no Time until then), or limitations of history (it's too far
>back to recover), it seems to be a Gloranthan fact.
The question to my mind is not whether they can be accurately dated (ie to what year they can be placed down) but whether they can be placed in a Linear Sequence. I think they can. The Lunar confusion over the Emperor Lists is no worse than RW attempts to piece out what exactly happened when the Aryans invaded India, frex.
David Cake:
David in his role as legal advocate for the God Learners attempts to paint the Caladra and Aurelion cult as an example of 'Good' God Learnerism. I have my doubts about the charming picture he paints of them.
>But my point is that [Moray and Telerio] didn't treat the cults [of
>Caladra and Aurelion] as toys - they were trying to create a new
>religion, for whatever reason,
And Zistor, Wachaza and the other cults were toys?
>...and they created one with strong myths, well conceived mythic
>ties,...
The myths were not so strong that when the warning signs came, they were papering over the cracks. IMO most other God Learners were doing the same to their cults when the shit started appearing in minute particles all over the office.
I believe the survival of the Caladra and Aurelion Cult is chiefly because the Caladralanders switched allegiance from the God learners to the Only Old One (when the Zistori got stomped), thus escaping the Doom that befell the others. Look at the other strongholds of their power: Meetinghall got swamped and barely rates a mention in the descriptions of Slontos when any Lhankor Mhy Sage can recite in his sleep tales of the Trickster Temple that was next door. As for Breakwater, most of the cultists were evacuated to Pamaltela where they disappeared without trace leaving behind the poor bastards who didn't have a ticket on the Foamstone barge.
>...and that respected its worshippers needs.
Major achievements of the C&A cult: Diamonds (preserve of the rich), Oil & Coal (can we say monopoly?), Kinky cult rites (now proscribed) and singing on harps (to keep the hardworking peasants happy?). The reclaimation of Volcanic Soil was IMO already known to the natives of Caladraland before the God Learners came.
>And they didn't try to undermine any other religions.
Lodril got shafted into second place. Most of the dieties of the Red Glass Mountains were exterminated.
>Their behaviour is just as much an outrageous act of God Leaner
>manipulation, but its also a much less morally iniquitous act
>than things like the Goddess Switch.
Why is the Goddess Switch so morally iniquitous compared to the Twins success? Forget the flaws that sprung up, if similar effects had happened with the C&A cult (yet IMO they did), we wouldn't hear about them.
Furthermore when did the Gift Carriers spare people out of their inherent moral quantities? Cults that survived the Doom of the God Learners did so because of accidents of history rather than any inherent moral qualities; I would hardly consider Wachaza and the Ramalians to be sterling moral examples _yet_ they survived.
> Another example of how they had a lot more respect for the whole
>process that many other God Learners. They actually followed through,
>rather than just congratulating themselves on an experiment well done.
You have the wrong end of the stick. All God Learners who made up Cults did so not because it was an experiment but because it was an *investment* which they hope to make gains from. Zistor is hardly the sort of experiment that was not followed through, yet it got stomped on.
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