First off, Michael Raaterova, responding to Jane's question about dead loremasters wrote:
>There are two ways of summoning the dead loremaster: 1) Summon Ancestor,
>which is a bummer if the guy didn't have children, and 2) Summon LM Cult
>Spirit, which also is a bummer if the guy wasn't worthy of becoming a cult
>spirit.
Depending on the temple/shrine make-up of the area, I would also suggest the Ty Kora Tek spell Summon Dead; in fact, I would suspect that in a lot of areas, the Ty Kora Tek ritual or something like it would be more prevalent than Summon Ancestor, but that's strictly IMO.
On HeroQuesting, Truth, Time, etc. ...Peter Metcalfe made some interesting points, but unfortunately began with:
>I think that the Madmen's belief [about a red herring Argrath-Yelmalio
>connection] would work if his faith was strong enough, but he would
>have to do some pretty exotic HQing to make it all stand up. Even
>then the myth is only true for himself and whatever innocent people
>he managed to warp in his quest....
Hmm; dunno. IMO and IMG there is such a thing as the HeroQuest that won't work, no matter how many times you try it, no matter how powerful you may be; simply because something can be imagined doesn't mean it can be HeroQuested for. I wouldn't be surprised if the Gbaji trollkin curse was something along those lines, that no matter how many HeroQuests are attempted to reverse the curse, none will ever fully work (i.e., trollkin are here to stay). On a certain level, the "believing makes it so" paradigm, and the notion that HeroQuest fix-its can do just about anything, verges close IMO to an unwillingness to make a "right/wrong" judgement (perhaps confusing a judgement based on "inaccuracy" with moral condemnation?), in effect declaring all Gloranthans to be happily correct in their personal and cultural world views (hmm; I suppose I would be willing to say that this resembles a form of mythic Monty Haul Power Gaming -- postmodern interpretation forever at play, a.k.a. Derrida's unwillingness to be wrong).
IMO/IMG, a typology of HeroQuests would essentially boil down to two primary types: the "imitative" HeroQuest and the HeroQuest of "discovery" or "change". The first type would be by far the most common, the second exceedingly rare; while I agree with Nick that most HeroQuests would attempt to "reinforce the myth-interpretations of [the Questers'] own cultures", there also clearly seems room for HeroQuests that alter mythic structures. Indeed, the existence of Hero subcults sort of makes that kind of HeroQuest (the "discovery" of something new about your god) necessary.
I liked Peter's suggestion about viewing the GodTime (and the God Plane -- on a certain level, I think they're the same thing) as a shell surrounding the mundane world, with more recent "images" being closer and more accessible. In a sense, the GodTime never "forgets", so HeroQuesters should be able to journey further back, if you will, to find older versions of GodTime events. He also added:
>Given that the Dara Happans believe that there is no Compromise, can
>they and the Lunars change history? :) I resolve this dilemma by
>extending linear time (which cannot be changed) back beyond the
>compromise right to the beginning - thus the Golden Age, the Green
>Age and the Dragon Age can all be written in linear history *if* we
>had the evidence.
Hmm; tricky, that. I agree with David Dunham that regardless of whether the Dara Happans acknowledge the Compromise, there is a distinct difference between pre-Dawn and post-Dawn time; OTOH, it strikes me as also possible that the Dara Happans may indeed have a privileged position vis-a-vis HeroQuesting, considering IIRC their involvement in both the creation of Nysalor and the creation of the Red Goddess. They do seem capable of bringing about changes of extraordinary consequence in the mundane world with a certain (disturbing) regularity.
I think, however, that I would wind up arguing that there is a (subtle) distinction between the linear sequence to events in the God Time and actual linear time. The God Time strikes me as being capable of holding multiple versions of the same event side-by-side, allowing for minor variations in cultural beliefs depending on which path you followed during your cult and Sacred Time rituals; there may be a linear "sequence", but it would be like following a flowchart, I guess (or perhaps playing a really complicated game of Snakes & Ladders?). IMO there are no options in true linear time, however; a HeroQuest that managed to interact with a historical moment isn't going back into the past (i.e., Time Travelling -- sorry, but I disagree strongly with Mike Cule's notion of Gloranthan Time Travel), but rather bringing that event forward into the present, causing a repetition of the historical act in "real time"; hence, IMO, the only thing that can be altered is the future, not the past.
I apologize if that doesn't make any sense.
Finally, on a different topic, Peter wrote in response to David (Dunham):
>The Great Smith would
>be more of an independant magician than a Priest praying
>to a deified two-bit Tinker.
Seconded; I tend to think of Gustbran as more the God of the Forge than the God of Smiths, the deity of harnessed power, not creating and shaping and making; IMO, true Smiths would be either shamans or sorcerors, though I suppose I might be willing to throw out the idea of a Lhankhor Mhy variant of the "magic worker" -- trying to tie the act of making with the act of knowing.
Just some thoughts,
Mark
Powered by hypermail