I certainly believe it makes it mythically true from a Lunar point of view. So its true in some sense.
>What's to
>stop Yelm or Shargash being made a Moon by this argument?
The Lunars don't believe it. Both Yelm and Shargash have other parts within their religion. If you want to make Yelm or Shargash 'moons', then start your own lunar religion - just expect it to encounter some opposition, both magical and mundane, from the existing one.
I don't think its impossible, just unlikely. It is considerably more plausible that some moon cult somewhere might claim some other celestial body as a part of the moon, such as the blue moon trolls claiming that Artia the bat planet was somehow associated with the blue moon (I don't know if they do, but they could). In fact, Valare Addi at one stage claimed that Entekos (presumably both the goddess and the planet) was an aspect of the moon goddess (and then heroquested to prove that she was wrong, at the request of the Red Goddess) (of course, exactly how the Red Goddess 'knew' that Addi was incorrect is another question - but she presumably has some special insight into this question, and even if she didn't had a good knowledge of the solar myths of GRoY).
But the important thing is that if the Lunar religion did claim that Shargash or Yelm were aspects of the moon, then that would not change the observed historical facts of what people saw in the sky. Unfortunately, I know that I also disagree with you on what they actually saw in the sky, so I think our views are probably unreconcilable.
Sandy attempts to cure me of my delusions
>The Blue Moon is _still_ in the sky -- you can
>see it every 2-7 days or so with the right magic. It's plain that
>she didn't turn red -- just _look_ at her. She's blue, see?
There is this Blue thing in the sky. There used to be a real moon up there, but now there is just a blue streak that you can occasionally see dropping down. Its quite obviously NOT the same thing as the Blue Moon that used to be there. Even the ardent blue moon worshippers believe that this is only a fragment of what there was once, and I'm sure some people don't believe its a moon at all (but a unique heavenly body).
The Lunars believe that this is a mere ghost or shadow of her former self, or perhaps a sad perpetual reenactment of her fall from heaven. They believe that the goddess abandoned that body when it fell, and went on to make a new body for herself. I'm sure other people (the Veldang, for example) believe other things.
>Her ever-decaying corpse can be visited on the hero-plane
>and talked with.
You can meet all sorts of bizarre stuff on the hero-plane. Doesn't prove a whole lot.
Besides, I am not sure how this contradicts the Lunar view anyway.
What do I think about the current Blue Moon?
Well, here is an attempt to produce a description of what actually happened in the sky. It is, AFAIK, as correct as possible according to Gregs current ideas, but highly subject to gregging anyway (he is still playing around with this stuff). It is hopefully not subject to Sandying (or at least in the major details), as I have attempted to integrate his comments on the issue. It has already been Metcalfed, but not to worry about that.....
NB - the Annilla writeup appears to be an attempt to squash at least two, probably three or more, different blue moon cults that had little to do with each other into one. I've assumed that the cult writeup of Troll Gods, which is probably largely wrong anyway, represents the views of the trolls of the Blue Moon Plateau.
A brief precis of the moons and other celestial planets, observed facts, and beliefs. The Observed bits are what I think pretty much all cultures agree on (or don't disagree about anyway) (though not all list members may feel the same), the interpretation the culture specific parts.
Observed - A long time ago (100,000 to 75,000), there were very different planets in the sky, and the sun. A rogue celestial body (known as Umatum to the Yuthuppans, the big authority on this stuff) entered the sky, and all manner of changes started to happen. During this time there was a white planet, which moved in odd ways.
Interpretation - AFAIK no one but the Yuthuppans recorded this stuff. You will be able to find out what they thought from my web page shortly, or you may have worked it out from other sources (the appendices at the back of the Ivory Pages edition of GRoY are the best place to start).
Observed - One of the planets was a white planet. It started to move in strange ways across the sky. Eventually, it dipped below the horizon and disappeared. It was never seen again in that form, but a similar red body rose. The new red planet is worshipped by some peoples, including the Dara Happans from the city of Mernita (where the Blue Moon plateau is now).
Interpretation - according to the Lunars, the white moon (Veritherusa) dips below the horizon, sees the underworld and changes colour to red and rises again. According to the Dara Happans, they aren't quite sure what happened to Veritherusus (at least its not in GRoY, the Yuthuppans may have better records than the Yelmies), but they know it was there, isn't there now, and a red planet called Sedenya appeared that had something to do with it. AFAIK no one else has records of this era, or cares much.
Observation - there is no longer a red body, there is now a blue one. It is lower in the sky. This happens just after the subsidence of the great flood in Dara Happa (Lesser Darkness period).
Interpretation - the Lunars believe the Red goddess Sedenya has fallen to lower in the sky, and is now called Lesilla. The Artmali believe the Blue Moon has risen.
Observation - the blue moon falls from the sky. A large chunk of it falls on Mernita.
Interpretation - the Dara Happans believe that someone destroys the Blue Moon for its opposition to Yelm (either Emperor Lukarius or Shargash, depending on who you are?). The Artmali believe that the Blue moon is killed too, but I don't know who they think does it. This may be when disasters befall the Veldang empire. The Blue Moon trolls believe the Blue Moon is injured, by mysterious beings (their names are in the Troll Gods writeup), and a large part of her falls on Mernita, but she lives.
Observation - the sky goes dark. No celestial bodies are seen for a while.
Interpretation - this is called the Great Darkness by many folks, the Bleak Period or Kazkurtum by the Dara Happans. The Lunars believe that the moon goddess is either in hell, or incarnated as a human being, at various times during this period. The Artmali believe the blue moon is in the underworld.
Observation - the blue streak is seen in the sky when the great darkness ends. The blue streak dives from Pole Star into Magasta's Pool every 2-7 days.
Interpretation - I'm not quite sure what the Lunars believe. They believe in a deity in the sky, called Orogeria, but I know next to nothing about her celestial form (though I know there was one), so it could be the same as the blue streak or it could be something else. The Blue Moon trolls believe that the blue streak is the single part that remains in the sky, but they have a closer relationship with the part of her body that they live in (its almost as if they have her kept a part of her body alive when it should have died, an undead goddess). The Artmali believe this is their blue moon goddess resurrected, but they acknowledge she is weaker.
Observation - the blue streak is still there today
Interpretation - the Lunars probably believe that this is a ghost or similar of the blue moon. The Annila trolls and the Veldang believe that the blue streak is what remains of the Blue Moon after she was cast out of heaven.
Observation - the Red Moon appears over Peloria.
Interpretation - the Lunars believe this is the latest incarnation of their reincarnating moon goddess. The Blue Moon Trolls might believe that this is a different moon to the blue one, but an ally. Or they could believe the Lunar orthodoxy. Or they could believe something entirely different. They do appear to believe there is a connection. I'm not sure what the Veldang think - according to Sandy they sure think something about red moon, though, because when the Red Moon rose the colour of Artmals magic (i.e. Vesper, in Troll Gods) changed from blue to red.
So thats it. I think the 'moons' of the east islanders may not necessarily all be 'moons' by the Dara Happans definition (i.e. some of them may be what the Dara Happans call planets), and some of them may not actually appear in the sky of mundane world (i.e. they appear in dreams), but I don't know much about them anyway, so if Nils or Sandy cares to correct me I'll happily agree. I am pretty unclear about the Black Moon - I have heard the theory that there is a black moon, though, which orbits the Red Moon, and is the reason it has phases (it is invisible to normal folk, but gives off black moonlight, which only affects moon material). If it does exist, I am sure the Lunars just think it is another part of the Red Goddess, which she must capture and make part of herself again, before she is perfect once more (ie the White Moon will not have phases). The Lunars also refer to the period from the fall of the Blue Moon to the Dawn as the Black Moon era (but I doubt that is what Sandy is referring to). Hardly anyone else has probably heard of it (well, its hard to tell what the Blue Moon trolls know - but its certainly a lot more than they are telling).
Anyway, here endeth this epic post. Thats just about everthing I know o the subject, and there are big gaps in my knowledge still, but I looked at just about every source there is, so thats about it.
Cheers
Dave the moonstruck
David Cake, Order of the Death Rune and Sickle "Orlanth is merely a kind of social disease." - Pam Carlson
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