David Dunham wrote:
>Alas, while my Gustbran question generated some discussion, nobody
>seems to have an opinion about Orlanthi tribal kings and clan
>chieftains. How practical is it to be both?
Mark Crowne responded:
>I was unaware that there was a distinction between the two - are they not
>just different words for the same thing?
IIRC, while "clan" and "tribe" can sometimes be used in the same context, "clan" generally means that there is blood kinship though one parent connecting its members (as well as implying a shared residence or locality), while a "tribe" is based on the slightly different concept of a shared lineage, a shared ancestor. I.e., in a clan you would point to a (probably living) grandparent or a parent (or by extension maybe an uncle or aunt) as the linchpin of clan identification; in a tribe -- probably made up of many clans -- the common link is a putative ancestor, in effect a founder figure, to which every sub-part would claim descent. The concepts are interrelated, though, so maybe an anthropologist could better answer the question.
Come to think of it, I seem to recall reading somewhere the suggestion that the "clan" is based on blood relations, while the "tribe" is a social construction; i.e., that tribes are rooted in mythology and politics, not blood-ties. I don't think the Orlanthi would go so far as to mandate that clan chieftains enter a Humakti-style "kinless" state when they become tribal kings, but I suppose the various rules about who can become the tribal king and whether they can remain clan chieftains might vary from tribe to tribe, depending on the tribe's founder myth (this is assuming that tribal kingship isn't bound up with the Orlanth Rex subcult, in which case presumably the career of Alakoring Dragonbreaker might provide the model for tribal kingship).
Peter Maranci described an Orlanthi morality play, as it were, saying:
>It seemed to me that this was a morally questionable act, even
>dishonorable. Others have argued that no standard of morality applies
>when dealing with Lunars, since they are allied with Chaos. I realize
>that both of these viewpoints would exist in the Orlanthi culture, but I
>wonder which would be closer to the general consensus.
As a number of posters have pointed out, the weight of Orlanthi public opinion (and law) seems to come down against both secret murder and ambush, and your players' actions are walking a fine line if they haven't already crossed it, IMO. There is a clear distinction between murder, on the one hand, and death brought about by War; the players' actions _might_ be considered acceptable if the tribal council had declared a state of War between the tribe and the Lunars (and I stress "might"), but even in War (at least what I see as the Orlanthi conception of it) their acts verge on the cowardly. As a side note, I can't help but notice that your players seem to be deliberately choosing the soft pickings (IMO a distinctly non-Orlanthi trait); if they continue, I would strongly suggest that a time will come real soon when Lunars no longer wander the countryside alone but instead never travel in groups of less than 20, accompanied by Humakti bounty hunters.
Josh Shaw wrote:
> Which means that a million-troll army spreads out along an enormous front
> like an oversize maribunda, leaving a huge swath of land damn near
> sterilized in its wake.
to which Loren replied:
>Anyone plan to tie this into the Kingdom of War thread, as in "what
>kind of force could stop the KOW?"
Another possible tie-in might be "what kind of force could stop the Elf Reforestation?" (Why, a million trolls singing the Tree-Chopping Song!)
As a final note, the continuing Moon discussion -- in particular a quick review of David Cake's Moon manifestations posting from a few Digests back -- has made me wonder a bit whether there has ever been an Orlanthi Moon god or goddess. Assuming that the various Moon incarnations have been visible in the Theyalan world (and I see little reason to suggest they weren't), is there a body of Moon myth in Orlanthi tradition prior to the appearance of the Red Goddess -- perhaps previous myths about a conflict between Orlanth and a previous Moon incarnation?
Just some thoughts.
Mark
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #670
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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