On the question of Orlanthi Moons, David Cake noted:
> ....Its possible that they might not have really
>distinguished Sedenya from the planets, but the blue moon must surely have
>been noticed. Then again, Orlanthi myth tends not to dwell on the sky much
>(must be all those clouds). And is a bit strange anyway - there are several
>bodies given names I've heard nowhere else (like Moskalf).
> A related question is does all the Pelorian stuff about Oralanatus
>going into the sky to battle Kargzant and later Vettebbe (the Evil Star)
>show up in the Orlanthi myth?
Yeah, I suppose the Orlanthi emphasis on a distinction between the Middle Air and the Sky could explain a lack of attention to previous Moon incarnations, though I guess part of the question hits on the relative antiquity of a 'battle for Middle Air' mythology; is Orlanth vs. the Red Moon a relatively new wrinkle in Storm cosmology, or is it the continuation of a more long-standing tradition? I seem to recall, frex, some (Greg-inspired?) speculation that Orlanth and the Red Moon (Sedenya?) were perhaps siblings, so is the current conflict the result of an Ages-old (even pre-Time) sibling rivalry? Would Sedenya have been considered a Middle Air figure, or a Sky figure? Nick Effingham's suggestion of Sedenya/Shepelkirt's previous end at the hands of Shargash as being interpreted in Orlanthi myth as the actions of the planet Tolat could point to the idea that the Moon was 'originally' a Sky figure, and that the current incarnation of the Moon in the Middle Air does therefore amount to cosmological turf-treading -- the Moon appearing in the Middle Air, rather than in the Sky, where Orlanthis think it belongs?
In the primary Moon thread going at the moment, Nick Effingham noted:
> You can fit the Black Moon either between White and Red, saying that whilst
>in the Underworld the Primal Moon was Black with the Darkness and evil she
>experienced and turned Red when she rose again. Or, you can fit it between
>Red and Blue, saying that in the fight between Sedenya and Shargash she
>turned Black with anger/hate/power lust.
> Got that? The Monster Empire, IMO, includes the rise of the Black Moon.
Actually, assuming that the 'original' White Moon (Sedenya?) also went through phases (don't have the source on that one, still waiting on my last order from W's Attic), then one might be able to say that both the White Moon and the Red Moon were both _also_ the Black Moon, and that this is part of the illuminated nature of the Moon -- that she is always multiple in her incarnations, at once White and Black, at once Red and Black (and opening up the possibility of an alternative form of cyclical moon magic, Black Moon magic, that is weakest when Red Moon magic is strongest, and vice versa; oddly enough this would make a Black Moon cult virtually powerless within the Glow Line, until the Red Moon fell and the Black Moon revealed her face in the Monster Empire, to follow Nick''s reasoning here?).
Peter Metcalfe noted:
>Anyway, what's a false note in the Lunar Doctrine where the Ministry
>Of Truth is housed in the Temple of Glamour (runes Illusion and
>Harmony)?
Hmm; if the result of combining Illusion and Harmony is in effect "spin control" -- the 'truth' that makes you look good -- does that mean the White House is the Temple of Glamour and Bill Clinton is the Red Emperor?
A couple of interesting theories popped up, including Simon Phipp's theory of a Nysalor battle with the Black Eater being at least partly responsible for the coming of Gbaji, and this from Jane Williams:
>Argrath wanted people to believe the version of events in CHDP. He tried to
>use some EWF magic (e.g. Minarian Memory Removal) to remove their memories
>and replace them with the ones in the book.
Interesting; in fact, I've always wondered -- given that the EWF wound up being an enormous disaster for humanity whether you were friend or foe -- why Argrath's dabbling with Draconic magic wasn't greeted with more suspicion (or the potential connection with God Learner techniques condemned). Come to think of it, there's a pretty good parallel between, on the one hand, the (Blue Moon-assisted) recall of Draconic knowledge by the Inhuman King and the overnight loss of knowledge of Auld Wyrmish and, on the other, the salient effects of the Illiteracy Era. It just seems to occur on a wider scale; in fact, there's also a neat parallel between the Dragonkill War and the Dragons' destruction of the Red Moon (almost as though these were forms of prearranged cosmic feeding times? :-)).
Finally, on the ongoing Orlanthi morality thread -- Martin Crim brings up an interesting parallel with modern-day Israel, and I would agree in that Sartar and other Orlanthi lands might eventually mirror the seemingly dispirited and disjointed state of Israel's current 'psychological' mood; killing dishonorably in the name of a code of honor is bound to eventually cause psychic fault lines. However, IMO the better contemporary RW parallel would actually be with the Palestinians. Hence, you get tensions between the home-grown leaders of the occupied territories and the leadership-in-exile (Kallyr and Brian vs. Argrath and his Prax mercs?); a quasi-violent uprising mostly hinged on civil disobedience (withholding Lunar taxes, demonstrations, some occasional rock-throwing); a growing violence against 'collaborators' (e.g. more Orlanthi killed by fellow Orlanthi than by Lunars); a growing economic dependence on the occupying force; and hard-line ''patriots' falling into two categories -- Hezbollah-style guerrillas aiming mostly at ambushing military targets (where our gang of intrepid Orlanthi hunters seems to be right now) and Hamas-style bombers who take out Teelo Noori orphanages (where they're headed?).
Just some thoughts.
Mark
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