Peter on Celts/Orlanthi

From: Joerg Baumgartner <joe_at_toppoint.de>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 96 20:15 MET DST


Peter Metcalfe manages to completely miss my point, probably due to my phrasing.

>After introducing a curious digression about a re-enactment of a
>battle between Union and Confederates, neither of which indugled
>in phalanx warfare nor berserk charges AFAIK,

This was an example for a fairly experienced reenactment force facing a fake charge, and breaking...

>Joerg continues:

>>I brought this up because the "furor celticus" was feared all over the
>>classical world, that's the region which had been fighting in phalanxes
>>for centuries. It took some military geniuses among the Romans to train
>>the men to stand through these charges - a bit like the effect of war
>>elephants, actually.

>Joerg has gotten things seriously muddled here.

Misphrased, at most...

>To suggest that Celts
>could break a phalanx like a war elephant is sheer nonsense.

Wasn't my intention, either. War elephants were devastating as long as the opponents weren't prepared to fight them. The same with berserk charges. The actual problem is psychological for most participants (i.e. those standing in the line next to where the elephant breaks through, not directly there), and naked savages with swords as long as your javelin accompanied by screaming and strange pipes of damnation tend to frighten even veterans from shield pushes with other civilised cities...

>Phalanxes
>are designed to stop the people in the front (who would be the most
>scared by the Celts) from turning around and running away. Also the
>only time the Celts invaded Greece in force, they ended up stuck in
>Galatia with no way home. This is hardly evidence for the Celts being
>the fear of the classical world.

Like with the Orlanthi, it took a hell of a lot to make the Celts go in force. Usually they raided, and the defending troops broke away from their furor. In Galatia the Celts were so feared that the one indecisive victory of a neighbouring kingdom earned a grand monument (the dying Galatans statues...).

>Even the Roman legions could cope
>with Celts on the battlefield (unless they were outnumbered).

After learning how to at the cost of having their capital sacked... The Roman Republic had coped with its neighbours easily at the time of "Brennus" (i.e. "king" in Celtic), but the invasion of the Celts overthrew them in no time short, not only due to being outnumbered (which I'm certain the Romans were not every time they engaged, yet they lost every time).


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