initiation

        Thanks to Saravan for his thoughts.

>I completely agree that there is a compelling aura to mystery cults that
>practically demands their inclusion in Glorantha; my point, however, is that
>within the context of religious experience mystery cults and their ilk are
>only one aspect.

        I think Pams point (which certainly agrees with what I understand of aboriginal belief) is that in some places ALL religions are 'mystery cults', in the sense of having secrets unavailable to the uninitiated. Even religions that 98% of one sex is initiated into. So just because a religion has 'mysteries' doesn't mean that it has to be much like classical mystery cults.

>in thinking about
>pantheon initiation (about religion as opposed to cult?) I'm not sure I find
>mystery cults a good model to work from.

        No. But mysteries does not a mystery cult make. On the other hand, I don't think every cult should have hidden secrets known to all its initiates. Probably almost all have cult secrets, but for many it may well be more restricted. Certainly I think many, even most, have some secret knowledge, but I think some of the truly large public cults do not have secret knowledge known to all their initiates. I'm not convinced, for example, that there is secret knowledge known to all Orlanthi initiates but not to Ernaldans (though there are certainly mystery sub-cults within the Orlanthi).

        And many religions may have cult 'secrets' that while subtle mysteries of the religion, are quite open to outsiders to learn about should they choose. Most Catholic rituals certainly fall in this category - there is nothing to prevent me learning about any aspect of the Catholic doctrine. (actually, I have a friend who is studying for a degree in theology despite being former president of the university atheists society - - he just got interested in the field, so his knowledge is now quite deep, yet his faith still entirely absent)

        Also, I'm not sure that the cults that have very lax initiate requirements such as Yelm the Youth (thats lax requirements to remain initiated, not to get in), many city gods, or Godunya have secrets you learn to attain that status. Yelm the youth, for example, once admitted (which is just a matter of birth) you have one initiation ceremony, and after that point all you have to do is tithe a mere 1% and turn up to a high holy day ceremony once a year - a ceremony that I can't believe occurs in much secrecy. I don't think they let you in on any truly secret knowledge until you progress a little. Sure they tell you lots of stuff, if you bother to turn up and listen to the sermon every Sunday or attend GRoY study classes, but that too is hardly secret.

        To take another view, though, I think in Glorantha there is an element of the mystery cult to every religion, in that there are parts of the ceremony that only initiates can properly experience (according to Gregs current thinking - the intro to the Entekosiad mentions this). So even if a cult is not a 'mystery cult' in the sense that its worshippers are forbidden to reveal its secrets to outsiders, they may be actually unable to truly reveal certain secrets.

        An interesting example from the Entekosiad is the finger goddesses religious ceremony, where it seems that at one stage there were cult secrets known only to initiates (including the hand gestures), but then they allow Addi to reveal them to the world, because they are worried their religion is dieing and wish to spread its knowledge.

Michael Raaterova let slip

>it is after all a game setting and i want to keep it reasonably simple.

heresy! Perhaps we should tar and feather him and run him out of town :-)

        Cheers

                Dave



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