Vadeli: Amoral or immoral

From: ian (i.) gorlick <"ian>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:45:00 -0400


Peter Metcalfe in glorantha digest v3 n127:

I'm having a bit of trouble following some of your points. For instance, what do you mean by "the Noble Lion/Disgusting Hyena comparison" as applied to the Brithini and Vadeli? And after all the bandwidth we've already spent, why would you suggest that we should "leave morality out of it" ? Please explain this more fully.

I have to disagree with you about the Mostali, and I believe they also would disagree with you. They are amoral. They do not have moral codes or assign moral values to actions or things. They have specifications and procedures instead of moral codes, they value things by their efficiency in the great restoration. They try to be as machine-like as possible and machines have no morality.

I also must disagree with you about the broos and ogres. They and the other chaos races are only evil in the perception of the lawful races of Glorantha. They do not consider themselves evil. Rather they obey only one moral law: "Do whatever you have the will and the power to do." They violate other people's laws as a statement of principle. They do not regard themselves as evil. Rather they consider all the lawful people who are holding the universe together as evil, because that prevents the chaotics from rejoining the great void of chaos outside the universe.

So, if my ideas are accepted, then the Vadeli are unique in being the only race that considers itself to be evil.

Yes, there would be a tendency for the Vadeli to become accustomed to their taboo violations over time. I suggest that this would lead to a diminishment of the emotional and magical effect of the rituals. So all the lesser taboo violations have become ineffective for them, they only practice the big ones now, incest, murder, cannibalism, etc. Even these tend to lose their impact over centuries. Hey, I never said the Vadeli way would be easy! They have to work hard to maintain their emotional sensitivity. They have to cultivate guilt over centuries. Remember the oily and obsequious speech patterns that Nick proposes for the brown Vadeli? Well, it is not all a facade, they really do have a bad self-image and they work hard to maintain it.

Loren:
You're right. We don't actually need to know whether the Vadeli are amoral or immoral. I would kind of like to know for my own information if I ever have to run one as an NPC. It's behaviour would be different depending on which it was. However, I could manage without knowing.

You are also right that the rumours about the Vadeli are more important. These are far more likely to affect the players. Nice list of rumours, too.


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