Re: IFWW and 'newts

From: Nick_Brooke_at_deloitte.touche.co.uk
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 15:40:38 PST



Dane writes:

> Only rumors of Vadeli duplication would seep out, accompanied by horror
> stories of the blasphemous rituals needed to accomplish it.

Certainly (like: why *do* the Vadeli moneylenders insist on including that "pound of flesh" clause in all their contracts?). My lists of "Ten Things" aren't public knowledge in Glorantha; they're behind-the-scenes stuff for referees to use or abuse as they see fit.

If Vadeli do look similar, why, so do the Brithini! Take any unaging endogamous race with not that many generations separating themselves from their founding ancestors, and they're all bound to look fairly similar. I picture a roomful of Brithini as looking something like a family gathering of same-age brothers and cousins: you can see a distinct family likeness, which is quite uncanny when you think about it.



Simon writes:      

> Nick Brooke says that I Fought, We Won was the prime Malkioni myth, known
> in many places because of the God Learners and their travels. However,
> the Dragonewts were a part of the IFWW (aaagh, an abbreviation) through
> Resistance in Weakness, and I defy anyone to explain how the God Learners
> influenced Dragonewt or Draconic thinking (outside the False Dragon Ring,
> which doesn't count).
     

I don't think this is necessary: the God Learners had no need to "influence Draconic thinking" in order for Malkion to have re-created the Universe -- *including* the Draconic bits of it -- during the Great Darkness. In the IFWW, the whole world was pulled together again through the efforts of One Being; the Westerners claim that this was their Great Prophet Malkion, and that the IFWW was (by definition) a universal experience -- after all, it re-created the Universe. In other words, the Dragonewts (and everyone and everything else) participated in IFWW, willy-nilly, but the Malkioni knew that they were the cause.      

The mystical *experience* of the IFWW was known everywhere, even before the God Learners travelled round explaining their interpretation; other myths seem to relate their own cultural "takes" on it (cf. Unity Battle & Storm Bull's Fight, as I mentioned earlier). To say the experience only arrived when the name did would be like saying the Sun didn't rise again for some peoples after the Dawning, until Lightbringer missionaries explained their myth of the LBQ to them: too silly for words! The *name* "I Fought We Won", and some of the specific detail which everyone now agrees on, was spread throughout Glorantha by the Middle Sea Empire, as an explanation for the common experience of everyone at that non-temporal "moment" of Godtime.      

But the Dragonewts would call it the "Ssss-Ss-oouoo-Ssiisstk'ch" (please insert appropriate gestures and odours), or something, not "I Fought We Won". And it is *impossible* for us humans to know what the Dragonewts are experiencing in the myth: all *we* know is that even the Dragonewts appear to be participants when we experience the IFWW. We don't know why, or how; but then we don't need to be Malkioni ourselves to be part of the Universe as re-created by Malkion.      

Take another look at Cults of Terror's description of the IFWW (available on my home page, for those without an original copy): I am proposing that the myth as described and understood there is primarily Western, humanist, monotheist, Malkioni; it was *universally* experienced, but the Malkioni claim to know the Prime Cause.      

NB2: I don't "say that it was", I "say that I think it was". I know this is an unorthodox theory just now; I hope to make it generally acceptable.      



Simon also writes:      

> In the Convulsions 2 Pub Quiz, one question asked who were the atheist
> cultures in Glorantha - we answered Brithini and Vadeli but the "official"
> answer was Brithini and Mostali (who worship Mostal) and we lost a point.
> As we came second by only a couple of points, I felt aggrieved by this and
> still do - at last, more proof that I was right (as always!)
     

Yep, you were right, and back in '94 the questionmasters should have known it (the data is in PB:G). As a member of the Convulsion 3D committee, I'm glad to have the opportunity of redressing this gross injustice by hereby awarding you One Convulsion '94 Pub Quiz Point, with retrospective effect. Don't spend it all at once. :-)      



Nick <http:/ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Nick_Brooke/i-fought.htm>

End of Glorantha Digest V3 #147


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