Stars, planes, physics, time, metaphysic

From: Lemens, Chris <CNU!AUSTIN3!lemens_at_cnucorp.attmail.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 14:04:00 +0000


David Cake: "Stars are holes in the sky, AFAIK, and they existed before the destruction of the Spike. The Pole Star is the particular whole created by the destruction of the Spike."

I seem to recall otherwise. Somewhere (but it could have been Gregged RQ2 materials; might have been in Elder Secrets) I read that the Polaris used to be somewhere else, but moved in order to fight the nasty chaos thingies coming in the hole in the universe. I recall other sources saying that the stars were Yelm's light captains and led the fight during the lesser darkness.

Simon D. Hibbs: "David Cake's suggestion that the compromise changed the heroplane more than it changed the mundane plane is pretty close IMHO."

Again based on ancient memories of Gregged materials, I kinda thought that the creation of multiple planes was an effect of the Compromise, or Arachne Solara's giving birth to Time, or whatever. The god plane was the part of the world where the Gods were separated from the rest of the universe by Time. Likewise the heroplane (if the two are different) was the mythic geography of GodTime events.

Simon: "I think this is what Greg means when he talks about heroquesters or gods
"proving" things to be true. In our world we would say that they are making a change and understand that things may have been different in the past. Many gloranthans would not understand the distinction. To them, something is simply true or it is not - if it is true then it must always have been true. Thus in the godtime the past is influenced by the present in a way that goes beyond mere re-interpretation."

I think you are close to right. I think what happens is not so much re-interpretation as unconscious application of current interpretation.  That is, just like most people, they are not entirely aware when their view of the world changes. For them, reality conforms to their perceptions more than their perceptions conform to reality. Believing that something has always been true may make it so, mythically.

Nick Effingham: "Godtime IGNORES time, completely. Utterly. Causality and common sense are ditched in favour of powerful myths and, in turn, strong shadows on the HeroPlane."

This is internally coherent, but I would still segregate time and causality.  Although temporally bound being like ourselves associate time and causation
(like equating "since" and "because"), it is not necessary. Try thinking
about an effect that temporally precedes its cause. It doesn't happen
(AFAIK, but quantum physicists disagree). That's why you associate the two.

Nick: "It was not that they did not notice the *advent* of time, it was always
there. They just plainly didn't care."

  1. Doesn't this contradict your agreement with me that Time did not exist, or was that agreement that, given the non-existence of Time, my explanation worked, or was that just some Thed-worshipping, chaos-ridden, disease-spreading, Broo-loving anarchic outburst?
  2. Why would one not care about time? Is there a generalizable class of people that would not care? E.g. immortals living where Yelm don't shine?

Nick: "Now, that's an answer I'll accept!! Ergo, time/Time is violated, but in a
world with little causality it works just fine."

There was causality. Remember the "because" in each sentence. There it is.  If you like the asymmetric 4D physics explanation, she simply moved in three dimensions (space), while standing still in the fourth (which I guess is called "not-yet-Time").

Something new:
What would a GL cult write-up look like.

(sound of fire extinguishers being prepared)

Chris Lemens, sometimes GL, sometimes GM


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