Me>>These things occured during the Godtime. We have people aging and dying.
>>We have days, nights and hunting seasons.
>Of course these things happened during the God Time - if they didn't, they
>wouldn't be patterned within Time. If there weren't days and nights in the
>God Time there wouldn't be any within Time.
The point is that I am highlighting the lack of difference in kind (not in degree) between what you say it was like then and what it is like now. Given this, it is pointless methinks to ascribe events then to the free will of the Gods and events now to the Web of Arachne Solara.
David Weihe:
>None of those statements had an reference to a GodTime chronos-time,
>only to chairos-time. These are both Classical and Koine/Biblical Greek
>terms for the single English word "time", but "chairos" (rhymes with
>"pyros") is event-based time, as in "at the appropriate time" or "in the
>fullness of time", compared to chronos (mundane time), such as "in the
>2000th year of Yelm's reign" or "two years after that", etc.
But Chronos-time is based on events. How else does your watch know how long a second is? And if the time between two events didn't matter why then did Orlanth rely on Mastakos for speed?
>I would say that the examples are, in fact, supportive of the negative.
>The problem is with the inability of English to fully distinguish between
>different different Time-like ideas, except via circumlocution.
Or perhaps a complete lack of need between distinguishing between six of one and half-a-dozen of the other.
Nick Effingham:
Me>>These things occured during the Godtime. We have people aging and dying.
>>We have days, nights and hunting seasons.
>I don't believe the Orlanthi would agree with people aging.
After Grandfather Mortal was killed, they would.
>As I've said
>before, IMHO the aging of a being in Godtime could be directly relative to
>how weary they are of life instead of how many years they have spent alive.
> Hunting seasons, seasonal weather changes etc... can easily be put down to
>which god is in control of the area at that time.
Which in both cases is exactly how they see it as occuring now. So why the need to postulate a timeless godtime?
Me >>But these things occur now. Yelm stops in the Sky. Tanian creates
>>the sea of flame. A rogue planet interposes itself between the Red
>>Moon and the Battle of Dwernapple. Zistor invades Esrolia. Waha
>>sacks Robcradle. Orlanth defeats Kargzant. Wachaza sends Magasta
>>to the Underworld. Orlanth and Arangorf dance the Perfect Dance.
> But these are all breaches of time, most probabley the result of
>HeroQuesting, which is the only way to cheat the Compromise.
The Sunstop is said to be a breach of time, but the other events are not said to be so in anybodys book. Some events are said to have breached the Compromise ie Zistor becoming a God, but this is confuted by Dormal and Arkat.
>(when did Wachaza send Magasta to the underworld and why? This sounds
>like an intresting tale I should learn)
It's a result of the God Learner wars with the Waetagi. Mentioned somewhat obliquely in WF.
>I would say that these are the exceptions that prove the rule.
Perhaps you should know that the phrase only admits a single exception and also prove really means 'test'.
>Look at WF in the Gods and Goddesses section where it
>*specifically states* time does not exist and all actions were taken
>simultaneously in Godtime. I'm not saying the Orlanthi are right, just that
>they do actually believe in the non-existence of Time.
WF is not the Orlanthi PoV. It is the God Learner PoV and reflects their experiences on the Heroplane. In that I can travel from Yelm's Golden Palace to the Green Age while HeroQuesting, there is no time in the heroplane. But the changes in the world imprint new patterns onto the heroplane. Thus I am saying that God
Me>>Look at the mention of the Godtime genealogies in KoS -
>I think you're talking about the stuff on p.74 -- and I think you're
>specifically talking about the line which reads that Orlanthi descended to
>his people at dawn after spending the night in away.
No I'm not. I was speaking of the Vingkotling geneaology. And as for your solution (deleted), look up when King Heort was supposed to have lived. He retrieved the Justice Staff a long time after Orlanth originally came down with it and yet Heort lived in the Grey Age.
> I never said people weren't born in the Godtime. Genealogies like those of
>the Vingkotling are abound in Orlanthi myth, but yes, the reference to any
>time related event may well have been inserted.
But the concept of a genealogy itself is a timely event. There was a time when X lived and a time before he lived. Ergo the Orlanthi believe in time.
>The IG never demonstrated any intrest in the Cosmos before the Compromise,
The Creation of the World and the Relevations of Malkion don't count? Just don't visit the West in the near future. You may find it warmer than you expect.
>Illumination protected Lokaymadon from Orlanth's retribution.
Illumination also protected Arkat from all his gods.
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