If I could save time in a bottle? from Bernuetz, Oliver: WPG on 1996-11-12 (Glorantha Digest Vol 03)

From: Bernuetz, Oliver: WPG <bernuetz.oliver_at_cbsc.ic.gc.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:17:37 -0500

I said:

>Yes, I'm aware that the Dara Happans are said not to acknowledge
>the Compromise at all but why would Yelm want his worshippers to
>know he wasn't any better or more powerful than the rest of the
>gods)?

Peter Metcalfe says in response to this:

>Does the Invisible God tell his worshippers that he's bound by the
>compromise? Does Pamalt? Does the Dragon-Emperor? Does the Nidan
>Decamony? Then why do you assume Yelm must know of the Great
>Compromise but chooses not to tell his worshippers? It's like saying
>that Tolat knows of the City of Alkoth where he is worshipped but
>hides this fact from the Amazons of Trowjang.

Why do any of these deities have to tell their worshippers anything? It ain't a lie 'til it's denied.

>The appearance of an divine intellect which one can talk to is an
>artifact of the worshippers IMO. This persona only knows what its
worshippers know.

Personally I don't like this approach to religion. This is IMO a RW philosophical approach to religion and I like to imagine that there actually are deities that were once capable (allowed?) to do great things. I'm certainly not proposing that the nature of a deity is understandable or immutable but I don't think it's entirely dependent on its worshippers either.

> So yes, the Dara Happans do not acknowledge >the Great Compromise but this
is because the known >actions of their god
>translated into human terms does not include participating in any
>such compromise. The chief reason for this is because the Great
>Compromise is a World Council Myth IMO and reflects the New World
>Order (so sue me) in terms of the Interacial Unity that the Monsters,
>er, denziens of the World Council of Friends enjoyed. Thus Orlanth
>makes friends with Elmal, Arangorf and Kyger Litor.

>The Dara Happans view the New World Order in terms of the Sun bringing
>Justice back into the world. Thus Yelm orders his repentant servants,
>Kargzant and Shargash about to remake the world. In effect, they are
>describing the same thing. In practice, the terms that they use are
>geared towards sustaining their social system rather than the truth.

Okay, this I like-same thing, different name, same Gloranthan effects. I won't keep belaboring the point any more. I still think there's some ugly "truths" that Yelm would rather not mention to his worshippers but that's only my opinion.

BTW I think Michael Raaterova and David Weihe are bang on.

Ignoring my rather horrible and hastily written analogy from my last post here's how I see the situation now:

The gods and goddesses are constrained to keep behaving for the most part in the same manner in which they did in the Godtime. Some call this a compromise others just acknowledge that things have remained much the same as always (in the case of the more conservative deities who could tell the difference?)
Arachne Solara imposes a "background pattern" (to borrow a term from another post) that acts as a set of restrictions much like commandments or laws on the deities. There may be more than ten but the biggie is THOU SHALT CONTINUE TO ACT ACCORDING TO THY NATURE AS REVEALED IN THINE ACTS BEFORE TIME (this would explain why only heroquests which occur outside of time in Godtime can result in permanent changes to a deity (and probably undetectable changes)). This background pattern still has enough flexibility to allow for things like the Sea of Fire, etc. but I'm guessing they're a lot more uncommon than they used to be. (This doesn't prevent deities from jaywalking and cheating on their taxes though).
Somehow this keeps the Chaos Gods out. Probably because there isn't the necessary strife and unrest to allow them back in. As long as everybody respects the law they're access to Glorantha is limited.
The gods and goddesses probably police themselves as well so as to maintain the status quo.

On a related matter in the case of worshippers acting against their deities nature, e.g. Lokymaydon (sp?) being the most notorious example two possibilities present themselves.

As has already been suggested-he was Illuminated (which is used as just about the biggest cop -out in Gloranthan. Scene at a Great Temple of Yelm in Peloria: Priest 1: Hey who's the new guy with the Solar Runes and the...Zorak Zoran runes????? Priest 2: Oh don't worry about him-he's Illuminated).
You're second guessing deities maybe the Big Picture they see has a purpose in these sorts of things. (This IS the biggest cop-out in Glorantha).

It all seems clearer to me now. (And I'm not even Illuminated (I think)-maybe I'd better go tray and join the Catholic Church and the Church of Satan to find out).

Oliver D. Bernuetz
bernuetz.oliver_at_cbsc.ic.gc.ca

End of Glorantha Digest V3 #275

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