Heres a thought - with regards to whether the Orlanthi (or anyone else) believed that there were day and nights in the Godtime, what we are really asking is whether they believed there were days and nights in the age before the Great Darkness (and BTW - I would have thought the very well established, in everyones mythology, existence of distinct sequential ages in the Godtime said something about peoples belief in time). After all, the great darkness was dark. The sun was not around (or at least not visible).
So for the whole of the Great Darkness, which lasted a long time (lets say a thousand years, with a degree of error of one order of magnitude eiether way? that should be uncontroversial hopefully, unless you deny years, in which case call 'em generations or whatever, pedant) they had not had 'proper' days and nights. But they remembered them, sort of. And they probably talked quite a bit about how great it was to have proper days and nights and so on. And the descriptions of how great it was when the days worked properly got more and more flowery. So when the sun finally returned, it was good. But not quite as good as the stories, so eventually, rather than admit their ancestors had just been embroidering things a bit, they decided that time before then was somehow different, and even better than it is now.
I think the only people who have reliable records from before the Great Darkness that record how the sky was then are probably the Yuthuppan starseers. The Malkioni and Kralori think they do - but their records probably originate with the Yuthuppans anyway.
>Greg has said two things: that the gods have no free will to act in
>ways outside their established idioms(Heroquest talk, Melborne Con), and
>that MYSTERY is the most important aspect in Gloranthan stories.
Most of my recent rantings probably originate from that my impression of that talk.
And mystery is not only important for all the obvious reasons, but its also a convenient out for anything you don't like. You may accept that the gods have no free will as part of your cosmology. But hey, every so often it may appear that they have done something outside their normal idiom, and you don't need to work out why.
Jane Williams
>Yelmic POV on time as opposed to Orlanthi.
I was going to comment more on this, but Pam has put it better than I would have. Basically, the Yelmics think Yelm should sit in the sky maintaining the universe, only stirring from his perfect routine to correct wickedness ocassionally. He did this before, and does it now, but there was a time when he didn't and it was terrible.
The closest they would come to the Compromise would be something like the Submission, when all the rebel gods admitted that Yelm was great and they shouldn't upset him too much in case he leaves again.
Nick is only interested in Orlanthi ideas of time, and says of the true
nature of time..
>Who cares? Not me, that's for sure. The question "What is the *real* truth"
>doesn't matter to me, only what people believe at the moment.
Well, I think some Orlanthi probably do believe what you say about Time being timeless in the Godtime (largely Lhankor Mhy's that are starting to drift in Godlearnerish directions), and other Orlanthi (including your average hill barbarian godi) says thats bollocks, and if really pressed starts quoting the stuff Peter has been quoting from KOS and saying that he doesn't understand how you can have generations without time, etc. I don't think the Orlanthi are the sort of culture that thinks its important to come to a concensus about this sort of question. When the godi do get together, its not at the third ecclesiastical council of Orlanthi to discuse abstruse theology, its to shout a lot, invoke Orlanths great magics against their enemies, settle ongoing arguments between tribes, and foment armed rebellion.
In other words, I think if you are trying to find a single definitive answer to what the Orlanthi believe about Time, you are doomed. A lot of them wouldn't understand the question, and certainly wouldn't think it was worth argueing over. While I general I agree with Peter, I don't think that means all the Orlanthi see it his way.
[the Emperor]
>IMO, the original sense (in the Orlanthi PoV) meant tyrant or
>strongman which then acquired their imperial meaning when they
>came into contact with the Pelorians.
Yeah. I think Orlanth rebelled against the original tyrannical ruler of the universe - a common myth pattern (compare Zeus/Cronos, Odin etc. killing Ymir?, etc). It became the Emperor when the Orlanthi and Dara Happans met around the First Council and where at peace long enough to compare myths.
Cheers
David
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