I know I said I wasn't going to continue this but I want to apologize to
Peter publicly on a number of points.
- I never should have said that all religions are lies. That's merely my
opinion. The only reason in our world (IMO-not that this is an original
viewpoint) to accept any religion is on faith alone. Thus no religion can
be based on lies. Not if you believe it. (BTW I don't really think that
the Pope is in his job just for the perks-I may be cynical but I'm not Chris
Carter{joke})
- I was perhaps a bit too hasty with my examples. I should spend a bit
more time thinking about what I'm going to say before saying it. It's too
easy to just whip up some response to a digest in the heat of the moment
without thinking things through. A lot of what I've been saying in the case
of Glorantha has been of the "what if" category and I'm sorry if it didn't
come across that way.
- You're right about the impartial observer not making value judgments.
He/she/it shouldn't even be capable of making value judgments.
- I firmly believe that a lie is a lie is a lie. I do not at any time
subscribe to the idea of moral ambiguity. Little white lies are still lies
(but I still use them). I still phone in sick occasionally when I'm not but
I never cheat on my taxes, always try to vote even in school board elections
(not that I think it does much good) and try to minimize my jaywalking and
littering. Unfortunately this doesn't blind me to the fact that our society
and many before it have been based on ideas that don't hold up to inspection
even by the standards of that society. Does this change the value of the
society? I'd agree with you and say yes. Can and do good societies tell
lies? Unfortunately IMO the answer is also yes.
Now a question. Correct me if I'm wrong Peter but from what I've read you
seem to believe that what a society's elites and intellectuals believe is
all that's important. What about the great unwashed masses? Sure
astronomers believed Galileo and the pope did too. Didn't mean squat to Joe
Peasant or merchant (other than as an intellectual exercise perhaps). A lot
of people still believed that the sun went around the Earth (I'm sure some
still do-too many people still believe the world is flat). There have been
many really significant ideas and discoveries throughout the centuries that
have had limited impact at the time they were originally postulated,
discovered, etc. Affecting the beliefs and philosophies of an "elite" is
not necessarily going to have any real impact on the day to day lives of the
"common" people. This doesn't invalidate the idea in any way but it does
limit it's usefulness.
Now another question. Working from the supposition that in our world the
only way you can accept a religion is through faith (if this is even true)
what would it be like to live in a world like Glorantha where there is
tangible evidence of the divine? It would really IMO be a different kettle
of fish than our own situation. If this is too contentious a point let me
know and I'll keep my mouth shut.
Oliver D. Bernuetz
bernuetz.oliver_at_cbsc.ic.gc.ca
End of Glorantha Digest V3 #292
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html