A few questions about Divine Magic and such...

From: Ramos-Tavener, Doyle Wayne <st670_at_Jetson.UH.EDU>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:21:26 -0600 (CST)


OK, let me see if I have this straight...

What we used to call Divine Magic in RQ in is described in "Literary Glorantha" as follows:

Rituals are the acting out, by human beings, of the acts and relationships of Godtime (or if you prefer, Otherworld) entities. When you act as an Otherworld entity in one of these rituals, you are simultaneously in both the "real world" (or Time, if you prefer) and the Otherworld (or Godtime, if you prefer). You experience both the Mythic reality and the reality of the situation that you are participating in.

When you use "Divine Magic" you are adapting elements of a specific ritual to whatever situation you find yourself in (presumably combat, or some other "Adventure" situation) in order to evoke an effect that you see as beneficial to you. You must have participated in the ritual in order to evoke the effect, by using elements of the ritual such as speech, state of mind, stance and other "ritual" actions.

Questions:

Presumably, "Spells" are not taught, as nearly any part of a ritual could be used to evoke an effect. Correct?

There are presumably social conventions about which elements of a ritual are practically useful for "spell casting", but otherwise, as long as you are adapting elements that you directly mimicked in a ritual, there are few restrictions about which part of the ritual can be used for an effect. Correct?

(This seems a little vague, even to me. What I am specifically wondering is
if there are really standard sets of spells or rather if there are "effects" that have been generated in the past that are part of the oral and written tradition of the theist culture involved. Also, if some one figured out how to use a ritual in a different way, could that person then produce an effect not previously known to the culture?)

Only those who participate in the ritual can invoke the effect, because only they have seen the mythic reality that underlies the ritual. Correct?

Also, is it this the specific experienced knowledge that Greg Stafford refers to as Gnosis?

Presumably, Initiation rituals are extremely important, because before initiation, one is unable to perceive the Otherworld even when observing such rituals, much less participating in them. So that when Biturian Varosh
(the Issaries priest from CoP) acts as an enemy during the Yelmalio ritual,
he does not perceive the mythic reality, as only those initiated in the Yelmalian religion would. Correct?

Observations:

When you use "Divine Magic", you are essentially re-imposing a Mythic relationship upon Time.

The POW/MP Vs POW/MP conflict is essentially a competition between two world views. Which reality is the one that will dominate?

The idea that "Magic", considered as a social institution, derives from religion, is an old one (see "Stolen Lightning: the Social Theory of Magic" by Daniel Lawrence O'Keefe).

Those who make this sort of assertion also make a linked assertion: That religion (and thus ritual and myth) is a projection of society.

Since ritual seems to be a Gloranthan's way of checking on whether or not a myth is true (i.e. whether or not you experience Mythic reality when you enact the ritual) this would seem to indicate that myth or stories come first, which then imposes on the Otherworld a pattern, which then can be experienced in ritual.

So now somebody explain to me how the other magic systems of the other three great cultures work, without resorting to system mechanics. (BTW, I like System mechanics, don't get me wrong, but I would like to have a clear picture of how magic works in literary Glorantha before I decide which rules to use, and how much I feel like adapting them.)

Doyle
Doyle Wayne Ramos-Tavener


Powered by hypermail