Kestinendos, Carmanos Humakti,

From: Stephen P Martin <ilium_at_juno.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 00:13:49 EST


Peter Metcalfe <P.Metcalfe_at_student.canterbury.ac.nz> More stuff
>
>There's a problem in that the World Council records of the battle
>in that they are quite ignorant of whom they are fighting. For
>example, Kestinendos is reckoned as a Horse barbarian yet we know
>he came from Rinliddi. So I'm not actually convinced that the
>account given in Trollpak is an accurate one.
>

To some extent, he _is_ a "Horse barbarian". He may have been the Bright Eagle Lord of Rinliddi, but look at GRoY (Ivory) pg. 99 -- "He was of the lineage of Emperor Jenarong, and the grandson of [Breaker of Walls]. With the first two Bright Eagle Lords (Kestinmodos and Kestingatha), GRoY specifically states that each was the heir of the previous lord. For Kestinendos, it does not say this, whcih specifically implies that he is _not_ the son of the previous lord (who in this case was Kestingatha).

Also, he ascended to be Emperor of Dara Happa with the Rites of Jenarong.
>From this and his lineage, I have to assume he is a "Pentan" more than a
Rinliddan.

>I shall note in passing that the GRAY was composed by a known cock-
>and-bull artist at a time when the Dara Happans were initially
>friendly to the World Council and that Horse Riders can be hired as
>mercenaries.
>

Although this is true, all of the sources pretty much agree that the Dara Happans were not in control here. I think the point Joerg is trying to make is that the whole story of Khordavu is a bunch of cock-and-bull. Khordavu did _not_ rule all of the land. He was not even master of most of the land -- the nomads still were! He had a few strongholds full of his "allies" (later called his subjects by Plentonius), and so the three cities could withstand the nomads for a time. But he was not the lord of the entire Oslir River, IMO.

>[Giants]
>
>>I have no real reason to believe that this is wrong, either. The Blue
Moon
>>is known for its inherent death, explained nicely by the soulless
infant
>>etc. in the Troll Gods Annilla myth. Her subsequent invasion of the
upper
>>sky has been observed by the Yuthuppans, too.
>
>The Soulless child myth is not told by the Pelorian Blue Moon
>Trolls. Hence I view the Troll Gods account as a created pastiche
>which tries to connect two or more divinities as one god. Hence
>I don't trust the _implied_ chronology in it.
>

I believe this is correct. GRoY supports this view, for it has at least 4 or 5 different deities who could be the Blue Moon. For example, from Troll Gods and the way "The Perfect Sky" is written, I assume the planet Uleria is the one which some trolls remember as their Blue Moon. Ulurda and Ulurdum were also blue planets. The goddess Annilha, mentioned in the GodsWall section as the Blue Streak, may be another. I have postulated the existence of another blue planet, which I call the Boat Planet, known to the Dara Happans as their emperor Anaxial (after his death). Greg has so far accepted this idea, so there is another choice. I think it is likely that aspects of a number of these entities make up various parts of the Troll Gods very God Learneresque Annilla cult write-up.

Greg has even said, quite recently, that perhaps the planet Mastakos/Uleria is the one the Loper People worshiped as their "Annilla". I noted that this planet goes to the western sky, then "teleports" to the eastern sky. The Loper People are noted for their supposed ability to teleport, per the Annilla cult write-up.

The Lunars claim that an earlier avatar of the Red Goddess, Princess Cerulia, was in the sky at some time in the past. She may be one or more of these bodies, or a different one.

Peter Metcalfe <P.Metcalfe_at_student.canterbury.ac.nz> humakt in carmania

>>but it seems unlikely to me that a Carmanian or Dara Happan
>>noble would have worshiped Humakt.
>
>Why not? The Carmanians do get some of their gods from Fronela.
>We know that there was a Ralian influence in Fronela since the
>Chaos Wars (from Talor's expedition into Ralios) and before if
>my story about Arkat's father is correct. So there's plenty
>of scope for a cult of Humakt in Carmania even if he is called
>something exotic like Humct.
>

Just doesn't match the stuff on Carmania and its origins that Greg has

shown me. Could be, though -- depends on where the die finally stops, I
suppose. Of course, a bit of lobbying with Greg (at conventions or by
letter) never hurt, either. I have no strong opinions at this point on
the matter, just a belief.

>

David Cake <davidc_at_cyllene.uwa.edu.au> the Carmanian Humakti retcon
>
>Its worth noting that Syranthir himself performs a 'severing of his kin'
>with an iron sword, which sounds sort of Humakti, and predates the
founding
>of modern Carmania.
>

Is this from Fortunate Succession? If so, it does make it much more likely that Humakt is known in Carmania. Unless the modern Humakti beliefs of the Orlanthi were affected by the Three Brothers spreading their cult into Saird. Just kidding.

>but I expect Humakt as eventually redefined in Carmania to be part of
the
>origin of the Yanafals cult (and the reason why it is so much like the
>Humakt cult),

Except that the Yanafal Ta'arnils cult may no longer _be_ so close to the Humakt cult -- if Greg were to do it as a cult write-up right now, I doubt it would simply be the "Humakt under another name" cult which exists on disk at Chaosium right now. How close it would be, I don't know, but the more Greg works on the Lunar origins and philosophies, the less alike the two will be, IMO.

Stephen Martin
ilium_at_juno.com

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