First, Danny Bournes ranting outburst - Danny, discussion may sometimes seem trivial, and it sometimes is. But just because a discussion on some esoteric area does not necessarily interest you does not mean its just waffle. The recent Yelmic discussion, for example, is important because people actually run campaigns there and need to know things like the main gods, the social structure, who their PCs will worship. Unfortunately, the only way to work this stuff out is by sifting through hard to understand obscure sources, which leads to frequent disagreements.
>To some of you who might not realize this : "Glorantha is a world to roleplay
>in." And at the risk of being accused of being a Godlearner, that we 'front
>line GM' need is help in making our games more interesting with details which
>are interesting to the players
A part of this is just that a lot of stuff seems esoteric if you don't run a game there - but seems quite important if you do. All this argueing about Yelmic cult practices, for example - what cult the peasants of Raibanth worship might seem esoteric to you, but its not if you have a PC thats a Raibanth peasant. Its also just different campaigns with different styles. The details of the Orlanthi legal system, for example, might seem esoteric to some people, but not the people who have legal cases come up in their campaigns.
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled Yelmic nitpicking....
>>Yelm the Youth is different from City God initiation
>As written, it is different* but I think that given the Dara Happan
>City Focus and the requirements of birth, making membership of
>Yelm the Youth equivalent to citizenship is a good idea.
But the Dara Happan idea of citizenship is very restrictive - in fact, Yelm the Youth membership entitles you to only partial citizenship, you don't get to be a real citizen unless you are both in Yelm the Youth and own property.
Given that the Dara Happan idea of citzenship is so restrictive, perhaps in Dara Happa the city god is worshipped not just by the citizens, but by the residents in general?
After all, what god do the majority of city residents of Raibanth worship? Its not Yelm, thats restricted to relatively small elite (still several thousand - but far off a majority). Its not Lodril, thats a primarily rural, not urban cult. So, what do they worship? I figured it would be in many cases the city gods. Having the city god be restricted to the same minority that worshipped Yelm restricts almost all the interesting religion to the elite. Though there are the nurturers, etc.- Thilla in Yuthuppa, Biselenslib and Alkor in Alkoth, etc - the gods I think of as the city gods might not be the ones the Yelmics think of as the city gods.
>I think there is a fundamental diffrence between the mask/son aspect
>described in the culturally generic WF write-ups, and the more clearcut
>position various deities occupy in the DH social order, as described in
>GRoY. In fact, GRoy doesn't even list Saggitus and Hastatus as Yelm's
>sons, does it?
No, they are his servants in GRoY. But the terminology has probably changed many times, from the Karsdevanic clarifications to the Nysalorian extremes of pluralism. I agree with the mask/son aspect not being necessarily how the Dara Happans think of it currently, though.
Oh, and an aside on the Shargash/ Yelm thing, talking about fighting style - I've always thought of the Shargashi more as shock troops and elites. The Elevens probably contained large numbers of Shargashi, for example. While Alkoth does field formidable armies overall, not all of its army are Shargashi, and I don't think they would be as effective if they were. Just Shargashi commanders, with Shargashi elite troops.
Simon Phipp
>MGF - Having a bunch of yuppie Yelm cultists who can never become
>Nobles is far more fun than having thousands of petty nobles running
>around.
I always thought of the lower orders of Yelmics as less yuppies (after all, the defining characteristic of yuppies is upward mobility) and more your easily scandalised english middle classes, aghast at the very suggestion of immorality or an improper accent.
Stephen mentions the Proxies
>Fortunate Succession specifically states that there were "False Red
>Emperors". Since the Red Emperor is said to have died in a couple of
>places, and Greg very specifically denies that he died there, I think
>these Proxies definitely must have been pretending to be the Emperor.
Peter and I discussed the Proxies a few months ago. I originally thought, as you did, that the proxies where officials taking the part of the Red Emperor in some rituals, while Peter thought that the Proxies where literally Golden or Bone or whatever statues magically animated - and he appears to be correct. Note in the description of the statue of Sheng Seleris in TFS - IIRC its referred to as a proxy, and is definately an animated statue of Sheng.
Looking through Gregs Pelorian Art History notes (not generally released, but there were a few floating around at RQ Con DU), there is a long Pelandan tradition of animated statues of the gods. We assume that they eventually evolve into the Proxies, and we figured it was an innovation of Shengs to create animated statues of the Emperor (who is a god of sorts), Sheng being the first recorded user. Peter and I are still divided over the mechanisms of Shengs innovation (I think Sheng merely adapts a Pelandan magic, Peter thinks Shengs use of Kralorelan mysticism is important). And lest I be accused of providing unplayable Gloranthan esoterica - so, should your players invade any ancient Pelandan temples, or even modern Lunar centres, animated statues are definately a good opponent. Rules descriptions of fighting animated temple defending statuary can be found in Land of Ninja, I forget what they are called.
Orlanthi Law
>> My character is a follower of Lhankor Mhy and is by profession one of the
>many jurors working there. My game master
>has given me the task of coming up with a legal system for both the
>Sartarites and the Lunars and an idea of how these two different sytems
>would work together in the same region.
The Sartar justice system is reasonably well described in KOS. It is rather similar to Viking law. While my players are getting bloody sick of it, having seen some plots come up more than once now, the Vikings set has a few suggestions for legal case scenarios. I think most civil law cases are pursued through Orlanthi courts even under Lunar occupation. The Lunar system of justice depends much more on simply pleading your case to a magistrate, who then simply decides.
I have the theory that Yelmic initiates refuse to be tried for crimes (or possibly civil cases as well) by anyone not a Yelmic magistrate, thus explaining why the Lunars have bothered to import a Yelmic magistrate to Boldhome.
David
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