> I doubt that Glorantha has the technology to convert flying mounts into
> fighting mounts.
Really? I figured a saddle might work well enough -- albeit a differently
designed one. Hmmm, how would you stick a saddle on a bug... <g> If/when
you get into combat, Glue your tough leather flight gear to the saddle.
Should work well enough -- and if you're using Disruption, you don't
really _need_ to move -- just get a good forward arc of sight. After 1600+
years, I figure the trolls should have this un' licked. And don't the
Solars have the knowledge of how to fight from Griffin-back while flying
along? If the tan-boys can do it, the trolls can, darn it!
> I'm not sure what flying enemies trolls would be fighting, other
> than wind children (extremely rare) and other troll bugriders.
Offhand, you might encounter Harpies in chaos "armies," the Lunars have
Wyvern Riders, Orlanthi might try to use their Flight spell or Sylphs,
Solars might use Griffin allies, Dragonewts/Kralorelans might use Dream
Dragons or PIM cultists, and you can always raid Moonboats, if you've got
guts. Or take on the Crimson Bat on his own ground. (Er, air.) Oh, and you
can scare the hell of out Leonardo of God Forgot by buzzing him on his
weeny flying machine. I'd think it quite Solar to have some sort of goony
flying chariot, too. And the Lunies _might_ have bats big enough to
ride -- they've got the little bats and the Great Big bat, so they
might have a medium-sized jobby fit for riding (this is from my own
fervid little imagination, though, and I have no clue if it's true, or
even possible). But it's a target-rich environment, anyway!
Taking your good (but snipped) point on using bugs as recon/observation, I suspect that any culture/army that can field air recon, has -- and that their enemies have made the leap of having _their_ recon units attack the recon, which is where the whole pursuit/fighter concept came from in WWI.
> certain that when they do face bugriders they release a swarm of
> flies or bees to attack the bugriders and/or their mounts, forcing
Considering the problem of training a bug, I'd think it easier to train
them not to take independent action, but to act as "wingmen" for a mounted
unit -- more bang for the buck, and you need fewer pilots. Not a bad
strategy, although the attacking group can just dive/climb, pull wide,
wait for your attacking group to lose cohesion (which, IMO, a flock of
bugs will, unless well-trained or led by mounted/familiar flock leaders --
they're gonna fly off to eat, or something), then come around for another
pass. Or just have the attackers release _their_ flock of bugs.
Solars can try the same trick with hawks or eagles, I suppose, but I'm not sure it's worth it on a cost ratio -- the trollkin can Disrupt the incoming hawks, and I can't imagine Solars having enough hawks to really overwhelm the TAF (unlike the bug scenario).
> In fact, that's the problem as I see it. Flying bugs are so fragile
> that it is trivially easy to wound them badly enough that it will
> either crash out of the sky or drop its bugrider and make an
They're not _that_ fragile -- yeah, 5 points to the wing or head takes
down a bee, but 5 points to the head takes down a troll, anyway. And the
bugrider can always attempt to Heal the mount in time for it to "pull out"
of the dive. Now a bug's armor isn't grand, but Mr. Bee _does_ have 4
points, which is quite respectable (not on the wings, though, I suspect).
And he should have a damn hot Dodge ability, what with 3-D mobility and
such. So I do think that's enough -- heck, if I took a broadsword to a
Fokker Dr VII a few times, I can't see _that_ not crashing, so the bug
don't look too bad in comparison. :)
The big problem is coming close to the ground, where every ground-pounder with a bow is going to open up on you -- even with the massive penalties of shooting at such a quick airborne target (IMO), you're gonna get hit by _something_. So I can't see the bees as ground attack, and....
> Summing up, I don't see flying bugriders used as combat troops. I
> see them used as scouts and for reconaissance, especially given weak
> trollish distance vision.
...I think they definitely are used for recon, but the sheer number of
trained military pilots in the Bee Tribe of Dakori Inkarth suggests
_something_ else -- 1400 bee riders out of a total force of 5360 soldiers
is enough to cover recon but plenty -- and IMO, such a large total must
include air cover _for_ the recon, and for any heavier bugs they escort.
BUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZThat massive droning sound is 1400 bee riders in formation,a sound to strike fear in the hearts of troll haters everywhere. Why do you think the Mostali all live in what are effectively big air raid shelters? <g> And why the Elves thank their Goddess every night that trolls don't use incindiaries? <g> Look to the night sky, and fear....
Think of it another way -- bees aren't any more fragile than the opponents a troll army might fight, pound for pound. I think a bee is an evenish match for a Wind Child, Flying Orlanthi or a Sylph, and you're probably going to outnumber the heavier opponents like Wyverns, Griffins and Dream Dragons. Granted, a Bee is easy meat for a bow or crossbow, but that's what your Dodge is for, if you have warning.
IMO, trolls rule the night sky. This doesn't have as many implications as it might, since the trollkin are much less effective during the day (although I think the trolls can still make a stab at obtaining air superiority during the day), and since those mantis bombers aren't all _that_ effective at ground attack. Just good enough to give something similar to the enemy's artillery (ballista, etc.) weapons, not good enough to allow the TAF to create Gulf War: Glorantha. Although I _do_ think that dropping logs from 5,000 feet might count as an cruise missile, if only you could aim it properly...
> And I see the largest bugs used to deliver and recover small units of uz
> fighters for guerilla warfare, like choppers in modern warfare.
Yup, I agree. And used as medevac, too. But I can't figure out how to
mount M-60s on a mantis to create a proper gunship... :(
And note: if you sneak past the various protection, magic and guardians, you can fly to the Red Moon and drop off troll raiders. Sure, they don't _last_ long, but they have a really fun time before they get squashed.
On Bug Air Combat tactics:
Me: > > No, it won't be 20th century air combat, but... :(
David Weihe:
>> Actually, it will be. Most air victories are essentially ambushes, where
<good description snipped>
> When it doesn't work, get out and regroup. Rather like 3-D nomad cavalry
> battles, without as much terrain.
Good point. I guess what I meant was that a trollkin pilot doesn't have
the same range and offensive ability a good 30mm cannon has -- but since
bugs are more fragile, a Disruption might be vaguely similar in effect.
Hmmm. But I can't see this for melee combat -- you have to close in _too_
close. Too hard to get close to an opponent who doesn't want you in close,
unless they _want_ you that close. And considering how easy it is to take
out a wing, who'd want to expose themself to that risk? (Unless there's
clouds or someat to give cover, or diving out of Yelm at the foe. Both
tactics I assume Orlanthi and Solars would use.)
> The hoverers can use the same nasty tactics that Harriers can use. Get
> the enemy to chase you at high speed, then stop in the middle of the air.
In fact, the maneuverability in general must be pretty sick. Even with
trollkin-weight on their backs, I kind of see the "fighter" giant insects
as agile little monsters. Although pulling the quick-stop once too often
may rip your bee's wings off. :O
> > All hail the invincible Troll Air Force! Victory through Bug Power!
>
> Alas, you forget that many insects are drawn towards lights at night.
> Fly high, then fire burning arrows onto the ground, and the Solars
> laugh as the enemy flyers all powerdive into the ground. Victims, trapped
> by their own instincts!
Sounds like the flight of a dozen or so Stukas in the beginning of WWII
that dived right into the ground. Ouch.
But you forget -- the clever, sonar-operated night fighters of the trolls can easily catch the Solars by surprise, and a few good bursts of Disruption should prevent them from _that_ little trick. <g> The only "burning arrows" around here are the griffin riders making little glowing trails as they plummet to Glorantha, ha! Hope they burn the whole way down, the scum...
> Or use sylphs to attack the insects, and blow them from the sky.
Nah, the TAF's elite pilots eat sylphs for lunch -- howdya think all them
little trollkin get to be aces so quick? Just keep out of the Sylph's
grasp and attack it from range. Now, Flying Orlanthi Wind Voices with
multiple points of Lightning are Bad News...
Nope, the TAF still seems to hold air superiority, IMO!
James Frusetta
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