(sorry that I quote so much. Rewriting would take (me) as much space, and give less clarity)
Peter:
>>>The God Learners had perfectly ample runic sets of their own IMO.
>>>What do you think they wrote with?
Joerg:
>>Kingdom of Logic's Linear-B, or whatever you want as a parallel. Unless
>>Aerlit's son brought knowledge of the theist (well, Storm people) runes to
>>the Kingdom...
Peter:
>If you look at earthly pictograms, at their most basic form, they are
>all deeply similar. For instance, the Sun is depicted as a round orb,
>the Moon is depicted as a cresent. Hence I don't see the need to assume
>that the God Learners or their ancestors must have gotten their basic
>set of runes from the World Council.
The commonly known rune for moon in Glorantha actually is the holy baboon rune, an ass shown to whoever observes. Ask Chris Gidlow...
While I agree that some symbols offer themselves for certain objects (like the sun spiral, also in its guise as hooked cross, I'm afraid), others will have been communicated. There have always been people traveling incredible distances, like the megalith missionaries who spread a culture from Marocco to Norway, and deep into the east as well. We know that such missionaries traveled around already in the Silver (Grey) Age, guided by Argan Argar. We also know that there are common ancestors for the Brithini and many Central Genertelans, at least in appearance. Classifying them as "Wareran" stresses the wrong side of Malkioni ancestry, though...
J>>But then there is Slontos, the key region for contacts between the Theyalans>>missionaries beat the Malkioni ones to the city-states there, and introduced
>>and the early Malkioni. Broken Council Guidebook tells us that the Theyalan
P>I don't think this is the _earliest_ period of contact between the
>West and Central Genertela. The Logicians had arrived in Northwestern
>Peloria well before the Great Darkness, significant interaction had
>occured in Ralios and so on.
Sorry for being such a limited person, but Central Genertela is the Oslir Valley all the way to Choralinthor Bay, and I didn't propose many contacts besides via the Waertagi between Kethaela and the West. Ralios before the Darkness was different, and probably quite unrecognisable to anybody, with great "Hsunchen" cities amid the primeval forest. Almost like Jungle Book... Fronela and NW Peloria were invaded by Blue people. Now we know not all Waertagi (and relatives) are greenish in skin tone. They and their relatives would have known the logicians, and carried their magic.
Then there were blue-skinned descendants of Logic themselves, but I'll skip that topic for now. (Necrophiliacs!)
J>>Aerlit was a deity/greater spirit which figured greatly in the later war of>>Kings' dynasty period, but part of Malkioni history, especially Jrusteli
>>the Seshnegi against the Pendali/Basmoli of Seshnela, summoned and
>>controlled by Seshnegi sorcerers. Granted, this was during the Serpent
P>You must remember this is the period when the Malkioni were friendly
>to the Waertagi who were patrons of Aerlit. Afterwards when the God
>Learners fought against the Waertagi, Aerlit (like Magasta) had become
>Theos Non Grata in the God Learner mythology. Think of Jehu and others
>kicking out Ba'al worship out of Israel.
Yes, I have little doubt the God Learners kicked Aerlit out of Seshnela. Latest sometime after Nralar the Old died. My point was that the settlers going to Jrustela were firmly aware of Aerlit as a native god/spirit, and the fact that the earliest God Learners included _priests_ makes me suspect that they (well, some groups, if Jrustela = RQ North America, think Amish, or Irish Catholics) had retained the theistic traditions of Seshnela possibly more strongly than the homeland.
>[Air Rune derived from planetary movement:]
>>Still doesn't feel right to me. Umath's path, ok, but up the Spike, not on
>>the Sky Dome. (If the Yuthuppans are right about the golden sky dome, no
>>stars would have been visible there, in any case.)
>I don't understand as this is what Orlanth's Ring now does. Why
>shouldn't it be doing what it did in the Good Old days rather than
>having to mirror what some two-bit demigod did when he climbed up
>some molehill?
That's hardly the Orlanthi/Theyalan perspective I wanted to portray. I don't really care what the Dara Happans (and especially the Yuthuppans) fantasize.
>And as for the Golden Sky myth, stars were apparently visible back
>then as the Gods Wall has three star gods (Polaris, Ourania and
>Oropum).
Now that's a solid evidence... Dating of Godswall still subject to discussion.
Do the Copper Tablets have any of these?
P>>>Since the stars [of Orlanth's Ring] are orange,
>>>I think an association with flint or the thunderstone is made.
J>>Except that it isn't a planet in the usual sense.
P>It was _originally_ a planet.
A son of Yelm?
>>>2) When the Orlanthi framework of their mythology was still in
>>>its early state (ie pre-great darkness),
>>Lesser Darkness, you mean?
>I'll bite here with a deep digression and say no. If you use the
>God Learner Schematic, then the barbarian invasions of Peloria
>occurs before the Classic Pelorian Civilization which marks the
>Golden Age of Peloria.
And the Theyalan Early Storm Age (as per KoS). Yes, I agree. (!)
>I believe the basic roots of the 'Storm'
>mythology (ie Tryannicide and Freedom) had been settled then.
Since they were likely recurring events, yes, why not. (I have a theory that Vadrus once was Orlanth...)
>>IMO reliance on the stars came only with the Greater Darkness, and
>>the Star Captains' aid.
>Why? It doesn't in Dara Happa and I don't see any reason why it
>should not be so for everyone else given that stars were visible
>before then.
I doubt the "evidence" you cited, and there is a definite myth telling of the stars' interaction with the Theyalan peoples. If you believe the Golden Sky. I almost prefer the Boggles' creation of stars...
P>Given the visibility of Thunder Mountain (in Dorastor), I don't imagine
>they could see to the ends of the Inner World which would be required
>for an understanding of the World Cyclone.
As long as they understood the observable cyclones, they understood their world - as far as one can see, plus a little bit more, though not much. No ordinary Sartarite Orlanthi understands the World Cyclone. But then no ordinary Orlanthi devises sacred writing.
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #220
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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