The problem with this whole debate is that some folk say - "We want an objective and accurate history that GMs can use." while others say; "All myth and therefore history is subjective to the cultural view of the beholder".
While I agree with the latter view, I can also see how some folk would get frustrated with the multiplicity of views that many GMs simply can't be bothered to learn or don't have the players to actually cope with even if they did.
If you have a playing group of Gloranthaphiles then its a hell of a lot easier but this is pretty damn rare. However it isn't important for the players to know how a Dara Happan thinks mythically if they are Orlanthi - it helps if the GM does but it really doesn't matter to them as they will pull their myths to bits by comparing them to the obvious truth of Orlanth. Of course, the same goes for Dara Happan players too which can be a lot of fun.
What I am saying is that a GM doesn't _need_ an objective history, in fact the mythic viewpoint and the change of history ability actually give the GM incredible control over the environment they function in because its all malleable. So all this whining is unnecessary.
Simon Phipp:
Goes on about the need for an objective, clear history of events in the Godtime when he specifically destroys the timeline that exists for the pleasures of his players. Bit of a dichotomy there Simon?
I think what it is is that you _don't_ want to see a game world where the Gods are no longer striding bohemoths that hack other giant gods to bits and do great deeds. Plainly the thought that Orlanth might have actually been the name of some great chief in the past or simply made up is a bit off-putting to you, even though it is the way human beings make myths in reality and Glorantha has such a continuity too.
What Simon wants is a book called "Deities of Glorantha" with chapters headed like this: "Storm Age, God kill list #3" probably with some stats at the back for Orlanth and Chalana Arroy so your Harrek slaying players can finish them off next "Wow, Chalana Arroy has a cool robe to go with my Bear skin hat!"
This is where the bollock factor comes in for me I'm afraid. I love having big fights and huge characters but there are limits to the need for this kind of information - its more fun to use myth creatively that to KNOW that a myth is wrong - I don't think that Simon and others of his view have thought of the impact on Glorantha if their wishes were fulfilled.
(1). If there was an objective history of the God time then deities _would_ be
world striding beings - so where are they now? And what happens when one goes
for a walk? Lets not bring up the compromise as thats irrelevant in most of
Glorantha.
(2). If the gods are entities with wills and thoughs, then there would be more
active participation in the world and we would have a Forgotten Realms Avatar
game where the gods ponce about doing great deeds and the players could kill
them - no thanks.
(3). Heroquesting wouldn't work because with an obejctive truth, all you would
have to do was find it and you would never, ever be beaten on it. This has all
sorts of knock on effects - frex if Humakt IS death then Yanafal Tarnils could
never have won his freedom in the first place - mythically and historically it
wouldn't be "true".
(4). It would mean that Glorantha is a monoculture and because Orlanth actually
existed, you could prove his existence to a Brithini and his head would explode
like computers used to in Star Trek when Kirk hit them with the logical loop
tactic. As Majikthise said "its a bit bloody pointless us debating the
existence of God if you only go and give us his bleedin' phone number!"
Basically Glorantha is NOT Forgotten Realms and IS mythically realistic and sensible as well as incredibly rich - monomything it would destory it. We don't need a history, the Orlanthi already have one, the Dara Happans already have one, the Pelandans already have one, the Seshnelans already have one and they are all different but all right because they _believe_ in them. Belief in Glorantha makes reality - get used to it.
If you don't like the way it is, play a different game world, I'm sure TSR gas heaps of them they are willing to sell for the brain dead.
Martin Laurie
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #222
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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