Martin Laurie:
> Prove it! You say Storm Bull blasted the Devil at the block - thats just
> how the locals explain the Block! It happens all the time in the RW.....
Sigh. Go attend the rituals of the Storm Bull cult during any Sacred Time and you will see it with your own eyes (if you are sufficiently religeously enlightened). The God Plane is sufficiently divorced from the mundane that it appears timeless to us. A Storm Khan can perform the same ritual year after year, and see the same event over and over again. Sort of like picking up a book several times and turning to the same page.
Perhaps a short(ish) comment on 'religeously enlightened' is in order. I can see that this could be easily misunderstood.
It is my understanding that as one becomes more learned in cultic lore, one becomes better able to see & intereact with the Gods & the God Plane.
Example: A bunch of Orlanthi are going to perform the ceremonial reenactment of Orlanth's Dance Contest vs Yelm. (This is important, as even though Yelm was ruled the winner, it is the first time that Orlanth was recognized by Yelm as an adult & a 'contender'. Perhaps this could be varied slightly and used as an initiation ritual for boys becoming men?)
The best dancer amongst the acolytes gets tagged as Yelm (who's supposed to win), a preist/lord gets the Orlanth role, and all the other preparations are made. The clan/stead/ whatever gathers and watches the ritual.
The children & initiates see a bunch of people dressed up in costumes re-enacting one of the myths they all know. It's pretty, and there is a generalized feeling that _something_ is happening. Call it a general aura of magical/devine power. Nothing tremendous.
An acolyte in the crowd sees and feels more. The devine aura of Spirit Realm is plainly to be felt. What is more, to the acolyte 'Orlanth' is not Uncle-Harald-in-a-mask. He sees that Uncle Harald has made contact with the spirit realm, and that Orlanth is imbuing Harald with a portion of himself. The acolyte doesn't see a mask anymore, he sees a taller man glowing with youth and strength; in short, he sees Orlanth over-laying his priest.
Uncle Harald himself feels the power/aura of Orlanth filling him. He doesn't see an acolyte in a Yelm mask, he sees Yelm. He is projecting himself partialy into the God Plane and is participating in the event directly. Orlanth is also partialy projected into his priest. Uncle Harald has become an avatar of Orlanth, however temporarily.
I started playing RuneQuest as an adventuring sort of game; different rules from D&D, but same sort of stuff. At that time, I could not see why anyone would want to commit 90% time and income to a cult. Later, I took the wargaming veiwpoint of the cults being where the heavy duty magic was, so you get something for the time & money invested. But when I went to RQ Con I, I came back with the understanding I have tried to explain above. Glorantha is a world where the cults are integraly part of the culture, not a D&D world where people go to the temple once as season to pray, and when they need a cleric as a medic.
This is where analogies to the Real World break down. My own personal religeous beliefs would no doubt be a good deal less ambivalent if I could see directly into the GodPlane several times a year....
Hmmm, so much for a short comment. I'll try to keep the rest of this post short.
ME:
> Why aren't the Gods walking around now? The Orlanthi answer (85%
>accurate) is that the world changed and the GodPlane is no longer as closely
>connected to the mundane world as it used to be....Just as it did
>at the end of the 2nd age, when the GL's magic suddenly stopped working...
Martin:
> Hmmm, this seems like a bit of a Deux ex machina to me - added to the fact
> that the Gods didn't walk around in the first age either, there seems to
> be a hole in this argument. <long snip>
You are flying off on a tangent. The point of my statement was that the world changed, at or around the Dawn. The GL example was just that, an example; and only one of many possible. The world also changed in the 1st Age, witness the Sunstop. Or the 'Age of Ignorance' when everyone forgets how to read (KoS). The GL example was used only because it seemed the most obvious and well known.
Unfortunatley, Martin goes on to make more of the sweeping statements that I deplore. I don't object to him using them in his Glorantha, I object to him stating them as literal & universal truths that everybody else should follow. One more example, and then I quit for the day; this is getting much too long.
Martin:
> ....This seems far more logical and cogent to me than to say the magic
> changed without explaining why.
_I_ am not saying that the magic changed. I am repeating what _Greg_ said, "The world changed, their (the Godlearners) magic no longer worked." This from RC Con II. Greg did _not_ explain what changed, that is part of the mystery of the Secret of the Godlearners. Solve this puzzle on your own, I freely admit to failure in this area.
Andrew
PS Martin, if you really wnat me to answer the rest of your re-rebuttal, Email me & we'll take it private.
PPS Drink Orlanth-Cola
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