St. Orlanth

From: Nikk Effingham <wal_at_eff.u-net.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:58:22 +0000


Okay, thanks to everyone who has, as yet, commented on my cult write up. I will be working on a rewrite. Firstly, it will concentrate more on the Four Castes than the initiate, acolyte and priest level, which ,obviousuly, I should really have done in the first place.

>Paolo Guccione
>[Discusses why all levels should have the same sorcery]

 Are you suggesting that Farmers should learn Evoke Lightning? Whilst the Otkorioni Church allows you to change Castes, I don't think it would allow you to have one foot in either caste -- a farmer would be viewed very dimly if they started using spells not needed to farm, and since the Warrior Caste only learn Intensity, and have the ability to maintain only one spell at a time, a large number of spells would be useless. I think that Caste restrictions, badly emulated by the intiate/acolyte/priest system, would apply to sorcery.

>2) There are two ways Malkioni and Orlanthi cultures may interact.
>Malkioni may become Orlanthized or Orlanthi may become Malkionized.

IMHO Otkorion began as Orlanthi immigrants from Lankst (IMG they fled from the Great Plague in the early years of the Third Age, repopulating land that the GOd Learners left behind). They assumed large tracts of land, conquering the native Safelstrans, and becoming an expansion of Lankst. When the Jorstlandi Kingdom came to Otkorion, they brought the Stygian Relgion which was already five centuries old. It was embraced, and eventually expanded throughout the land. Therefore, they are Malkionized Orlanthi.

>OTOH, nobles appreciate the services of sorcerers much more than they
>would with the spells of theistic priests. A Storm Voice cannot maintain
>a spell upon his Lord, while a sorcerer can. And here I disagree
>strongly with Nick about being a sorcery-using Rune Priest of Orlanth,
>even assuming the cult allows you.

 This would be a different argument. Personally, since the Wizard Caste encompasses magi and priests I would see little problem absorbing the two. Especially in the case of worshippers of St. Lhankor Mhy, the sorcerous alternative to Orlanth's Rune Magic. Most Otkorioni Magi and fully fledged sorcerors would be worshippers of the Lord of Knowledge first, and merely "initiates" of St. Orlanth. All IMG and IMHO, but then I would also allow prmitive Orlanthi societies to have dual Shaman/Storm VOices, much the same as Kyger Litor.

> A Storm Voice would be a very inefficient
>Sorcerer, even though Sandy's system somehow mitigates this.

Percisely the reason it doesn't happen often.

>As for knights, I think that most are standard Malkioni Horali, but: if you
>were a brave knight of Ralios, would you not be tempted to join Humakt
>like Arkat did?

 Yeah, sure. But only as much as Sartarite warriors tend to worship the Death God. Other cults would be to worship the IG through St. Orlanth's Warrior Caste via Orlanth FOur Weapons, or St. Vinga (depending upon sex -- as planned, there will be no game differences as per se), St. Urox (still in the stages of quasi development) or one of the Arkati sects (watch out though, they're fanatic as hell).

>The farmers, instead, are the original Orlanthi populace who have been
>forced to accept the superiority of Malkion's god over Orlanth, but with
>little changes to their lyfestile (case 2). They still have
>barbarian-style temples where spirit magic is taught, because they are
>too illiterate to have access to effective sorcery.

 I don't think that, after 300 years of prosperous growth, the farmers are complaining. IMG the Farmers have both Orlanthi heritage and Safelstran heritage. The centuries of family growth has meant that, for political reasons, Safelstrans have assumed or married into Lanksti families.

 I suppose this depends upon style, I don't imagine Otkorion as being a fragmented country. IMHO the reason for it's increasing power is that it is united (forgetting the political schisms that occur in the highest orders between the Royalty, the Church and the Family Heads).

 I don't believe spirit magic is used, except as a holy gift, as described in the "Notes" of the cult.

>But what is the difference between the Church of Otkorion and the New
>Stygian Church of Naskorion? First of all, the Stygian church is
>younger, and less strictly controlled by the Throne.

 I think the Church controls the Throne, or would like to think it did. Surely the Naskori Church would support those Evil, Krjalki Darkness gods that consort with the Evil Emperor, invade our lands, eat our babies etc....

>Peter Metcalfe suggested interesting variations for the Lightbringer
>names as spelled in Otkorion. I like this idea, too. As one can see on
>my web page, and in the soon-available (I hope) issue #2 of Tradetalk, I
>have adopted the spelling Humath for Humakt, and a non-severed
>relationship to Orlanth, as suggested by David Dunham for his
>description of Delela, for the Sword God of the Henotheist Church in
>Tiskos.

I agree with Pete that different names should be used, or at least, attentio should be paid to name choice. Orlanth stays, sorry, to my knowledge (and I could be wrong) no region in Ralios worships the Storm God by any other name. Ralia is a better choice than Ernalda, even if they are different gods. No-one in Otkorion will know the differnce :) I chose Humakt rather than Humakt because Humakt is Arkat's Humath. Otkorion supports Arkat, ergo Humakt wins. St. Humakt is still closely related to the other gods since he is (a) a Lightbringer, (b) an apostle of the Invisible God himself who brought the Creator's Gift of Death to help end the tyranny of the Evil Emperor and (c) he is the Angel of Death, pledged to the service of St. Orlanth.

> Where I definitely disagree
>with Peter is in any sort of mistaken identity between Chalana and
>Xemela: St. Xemela has a well-known historical backgrouns, which is
>rather hard, I would say impossible, to mistake for the Lightbringer
>Myth and Chalana. Or are you suggesting that Hrestol is Chalana's son?
>Yep, that would mean that in Otkorion he is in fact Arroin! Hard to
>believe, but intriguing...

Xemela = Direct incarnation/avatar of Chalana.

Joerg:

>I find such an approach somewhat appropriate for northern Otkorion, which
>has more Lankst "tribe" inhabitants than it has Westerners. The south could
>well be different, as well as the none-Otkorian members of that religion in
>the rest of Safelster (Tinaros, Sentanos, Kustria mainly).

Agreed. The Southerne/Northerner duspute has startling similarities to the same barrier that exists in Britain.

>Don't you get suspicious when a bishop (or in this case archbishop) needs to
>stress his non-heretic belief? No smoke without a fire...

The guy condones the worship of Pagan Gods, and unlike the other Henotheists of Ralios, attempts to prove to the other sects that his way is as just and true as the others. PS, this is why he hasn't sainted Elmal -- it'd be too much of an afront to the Aetheric Church of Galin.

>While I don't know whether this might be remembered in western Ralios, but
>in fact Orlanth might fit the bill for "saint" better than that for "god"
>early on in his career. Divine ancestry nonewithstanding, his cult is the
>typical founder-chieftain apotheosized cult.

In my mythology, Orlanth was mortal, a stupendous mortal, but mortal. He was born unto Umathil, the first mortal to die and also a great Storm Wizard (aka Prospero) and a mountain spirit -- which means that while Orlanth has magic blood in him, he's just a mortal anyhow. Orlanth, therefore, qualifies as a Saint.

>Philip Hibbs
>[discusses Henotheist Saints giving blessings like in TOTRM]

 Hmm, I think it's more complicated than this. I don't think that the cults have been fully malkionized, and still mainly resemble the mid-continent cults, giving Rune Magic and Divine Intervents etc... In the end, the only difference is game mechanics. Minor Saints may have been sucked into the Blessing method, but IMG Otkorioni gods have (semi-)normal Theyalan templates.

 BTW, does anyone have a current list of Sandy's Saints????

>>Should it be possible for a theistic worshipper of Orlanth, Humakt, LM etc.
>>to translate his faith to this model?
>
>I believe that he could. He probably have to take a vow (costing POW)
>which will alter his magic and way of thinking over time. As a result,
>there will probably be somethings that he can't do (ie cast divination
>to his god) and somethings that he can now do that he found impossible
>to do so before. If he breaks his vow, then he backslides into the
>old ways.

 I liked Matrin Crim's idea in Codex #2; for a Yelmalion to worship Khelmal, no new initiation is needed, instead a simple ritual with no POW loss. FOr a Humathi to worship St. Humakt, a simple ritual would be needed. In the case of Divination, the Divination will be directed to the new god. I doubt Humath has a ceremony to intiate St. Humakti.

>Malcolm Serabian
>[discusses the MGF of not having to flood you campaign with Gloranthan Myth]

 Sure, I know the feeling. I have difficulty just getting my players to read 5 pages of a Players Guide I knocked up. Asking them to comprehend the intricities of Otkorioni mythology would be sheer lunacy.

David Cake on Malcolm Serabian's players (and seemingly my own):

> But DON'T say I should restrict my exploration of Glorantha because
>of the limitations of your players!

 A bit harsh, no?? My players are busy people, and six hours of fun on a Saturday afternoon is what they come for, not twenty hours per week of reading material. We all have to cater for different levels of fanaticism when it comes to roleplaying, just because someone has no wish to read KoS before playing a game, doesn't mean they are "limited"

All IMHO,

Nikk E.

Nikk the Broo Shaman of Thed
http://www.personal.u-net.com/~eff

    "If absolute power corrupts absolutely,

     where does that leave God?"
                -- George Daacon


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