Joerg Baumgartner:
>Not me consensing, not by a long shot.
First, we are only talking about Sartarite and Heortling Humakti here. Holy Country Humakti, Lunar Yanafali, and those War god worshippers from more civilised areas, are different because their cultural outlook on death is different. As a result I reckon they mostly require little if any fertility loss. That includes Jax's elder brother. (NB. I see Shargash as an exception to this - he's a primal and primitive throwback to Death in its purest form. I reckon his worshipers are infertile.)
IMO Sartar is a fairly primitive and barbarian society, with a pantheistic religion, and here Humakt's aspect as God of War is overshadowed by his aspect as God of Death.
Arkat did not bring Humakt/Death to Dragon Pass - Death was already there. Arkat (and others) only brought new ideas which modified his grim local worship to some degree. Such as the idea of the honourable and truthful warrior (a concept no doubt inspired by the knights of the west). This is why some suggest that Arkat is Humakt's son - an erroneous simplification of his role.
Even so, the core of Sartar and Heortling Humakti belief is built around a grim god of Death, War and all Endings. A god that is not fertile and who severed his ties to the Storm tribe by his own choice and actions (though he is still an honoured guest and a part of the pantheon).
Also, in Orlanth's pantheon Humakt fills a unique niche. As do all of the gods and goddesses of the pantheon (and in the case of some a niche that is no longer relevant). Each provides a specialisation based on that niche. If you start homogenising the gods in the pantheon then there is no point in having that pantheon.
Joerg & Jim Chapin mention a 17-year ago campaign run by Greg Stafford (who
*never* contradicts his oldest writings, oh no...) to attempt to back up
the fertile Death argument:
>Erril Silksword, Sword-priestess of the Temple of the Wooden Sword,
>gave birth to her (invisible) daughter by Alebard
Well, even ignoring the age of this source, they would do that wouldn't they? They're player characters. Never take the actions of PC's as being the cultural norm. That sort of thing doesn't happen every day, or would you dispute that?!!
Joerg:
>IMG most Humakti around Dragon Pass follow the god of war,
>not the god of death. They are part of the mercenary regiments which
>live on the tensions in Dragon Pass
I would dispute that, before the coming of Argrath, Dragon Pass was crawling with a myriad of independant mercenary regiments, not tied closely to their home culture. The population is too small and the cultures are too primitive to support such a situation.
Sure, I can see a couple small Humakti warbands (say, 100 or 200 warriors tops) existing in service to the kingdom of Sartar, and maybe they might just eke out a living as hired help on the regular cattle raids or border raids that the Sartarite clans involve themselves in. I can see a few Uroxi warbands too. But these would hardly be enough to generate the vast numbers of pensioners Joerg is looking for (most of 'em die young in battle anyway).
The Grazers may provide a few mercenary bands to others, but they'd be small due to their minute population and only serve a limited time before they'd feel the urge to head back to the range. I really doubt they'd ever wish to employ some themselves in the normal course of events.
The Sun Domers and Black Horse County would provide the main mercenary forces indigenous to the Pass. Which present no pensioner problems since they retire back to their homes to sire more mercs.
A few Mercenary units from outside of Dragon Pass have been employed in the Holy country, and may even in Sartar before the Lunars. The Lunars themselves would have brought mercenary units in from *outside*. But outsiders don't fit the profile.
Joerg's argument for Dragon Pass being flooded with lusty Humakti pensioners with a need-to-breed just doesn't hold water IMO.
Furthermore Joerg sez:
>I suppose that the Lismelder living on the marsh edge (and the
>ducks as well) have quite a lot of Humakti "farmers"
Oh dear...
RANT MODE ON:
Divad Llah sez:
Oh, yes I can see it now. It's an idyllic setting, outside in the fields
there's Bob the fun-loving Humakti carefully ploughing and sowing his
crops. Inside there's his pregnant wife Barbara, a Babeester Gor axe
maiden, dutifully and respectfully baking the cookies and apple pie. While,
nearby the stead is defended by their daughter Gerda, the Chalana Arroy
healer, who is at this moment decapitating a surly attacker.
Hell, what's the point in having the gods Orlanth and Ernalda? Humakti can farm, breed, rear livestock, they are damn good fighters, and they have those neat gifts that give them great game effects. Who needs King Orlanth - - we know King Humakt can lead men even better. And if Humakt is ill (or off adventuring in the Big Rubble) then his wife 'ole Babs Gor can step in and wield a mean axe, unlike wimpy Ernalda.
I say strike Orlanth and Ernalda from Glorantha! All ya need is good, fertile, and hard fightin' player character cults. Yee ha!
RANT MODE OFF. Please think on this. In the clan-based culture of Orlanth and Ernalda what is the point if Humakt can farm and breed like Orlanth/Barntar, and Orlanth/Barntar can fight and die as well as Humakt? What really *is* the point?
All Hail the Exasperated Moon!
David Hall
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #258
WWW at http://rider.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/Rolegame/glorantha.faq.html
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