Peter Metcalfe:
>Why? As far as I'm concerned, they are ordinary sized cattle (and they
>are ridden by the Lendarshi for example). How else is the avearge
>gloranthan farmer going to get decent oxen to do the heavy work if the
>only cattle he has are midgets?
Ever wondered why it takes eight oxen to make up a plow team? If the beasts were Scottish Highland bull size, two would be enough, maybe four, but eight? There is no kind of light plow eight modern-sized oxen would not break in no time short.
>>>And what is 'this sharing of the mounts' business?
>>Something the Hyalorings evidently did, since the Orlanthi ended up in
>>possession of horses.
>Which could have been accomplished by simple theft or adoption
>of refugee horse riders by the Elmali.
Funny, though, that there are practically no such cases in eastern Sartar, where there are bisons and sables aplenty to raid. (Biturian Varosh doesn't count, he was practically adopted into the bison tribe upon his marriage.)
>Me>>Why do you think the Hyalorings are from Prax? They do not raise
>>>cattle which is common to other main tribes but prefer to live of
>>>the flesh of their own horses (as well as hunting). They don't
>>>raid other peoples herds for cattle.
>>They were excluded from the Praxian (post-Waha) cycle of life, for some
>>reason unknown to me. Hunters may use Peaceful Cut, and hunting and cattle
>>raids aren't that different in nature.
>The Horse Riders predate the Waha Beastrider culture.
Yes. IMO the horse rider contacts with Prax (not Genert's Garden) which made the Pure Horse tribe were Darkness contacts.
>Peaceful Cut is a technique known to every hunting culture in Glorantha.
Yes. Orlanthi hunters use it, too. Orlanthi herders don't. Orlanthi urban butchers don't, either, which might be a reason why there are so many grounded Praxians working in butchery in Pavis - they are devout Praxians trying to lessen the evil city ways.
>Are you going to say that Pamaltelean hunters had contact with
>the Praxians?
Some (the men-and-a-half) still do, but generally not.
The point is, that Peaceful Cut is not a herder technique, except with the Pure Horse people and the Praxian Beastriders.
>>>They venerate the Sun and Horses and not Eiritha.
>>They venerate Horse-Eiritha by another name.
>Hippoi, Arandayla/Reladiva and Gamara are not Eiritha. If they
>were, then the Praxians would be eating horses without any problems.
Yes. There might be some myth how horse-Eiritha betrayed Paps-Eiritha, or Mother-Eiritha, and was excluded from the circle of Eirithas (Sable-, Bison-, etc.).
>>>Suprisingly [the Jorganostelli] is *not* recorded among the tribes of
>>>the Heortlings.
>>You're quoting an incomplete source, it seems. I have seen a longer version
>>which has tribes attached to all children of Vingkot except the Second Son.
>I said Heortling, not Vingkotling. The Jorganostelli are a
>Vingkotling Tribe but they appear to have changed their name by Heort's
>time. They are not listed in the Broken Council Guidebook or ToTRM#7.
True. Most other Vingkotling tribes had broken up and changed their names, too.
>>How can a scribe correctly spell a foreign ruler's name? Think Confucius for
>>Kung Fu Tse (in itself a transcript, too).
>Quite easily. If you didn't know, Conficius's name was deliberately
>latinized and his name can be spelt easily by a scribe (to wit, as you
>have done above). Furthermore the language that the rulers use will
>be the official language of correspondance, something which Kubilai
>Khan and others ensured.
Whom I know by Kublai Khan in German. So much for accurate transcriptions (there are lots more such examples where German transcriptions _sound_ different from English ones)...
>>>>[The Saird Hyalorings migrated to] The vast grasslands of Pent (and
>>>>the Redlands), and a renewed enmity with the Praxians across the
>>>>Snowline?
>>>I strongly doubt it. They would have to migrate through the
>>>Kestinlands to reach the Grasslands.
>>You underestimate the size of the Redlands. They reach almost as far south
>>as the Elf Sea, and go right to the foothills of the Troll Hills in the
>>Elder Wilds.
>AFAIK the Southern Arcos River Valley are not considered part of the
>Redlands.
I agree. The lands beyond are, though. Most of the lands north of the confluence of the western branch and the elf sea branch of the Arcos qualify, IMO.
>For the Hyalorings to get there, They would have to cross
>Holay
From Jillaro, which is approximately in the stead of Nivorah (fictional or not)?
>and either the Elf woods to the South or the Jord and Imther
>Mountains. Both are hostile territory and less favoured than the
>long circuitous route around the Hungry Plateau (which the Jenarong
>used).
I'd have gone straight through Tork. There was no mad sultanate there, then. Ozarkos was horse-rider dominated earth-worshipper territory most of its time.
>>>Also one would have to
>>>wonder why the Kestineddi haven't colonized Pent if it was
>>>completely empty.
>>I said there were more, and different horsepeople there. Similar enough when
>>catastrophe hit.
>How did they get to be _similar_ that the Hyalorings managed to
>become dominant *if* they managed to reach Pent?
Riding horses instead of birds, for a start. Common foes, better magic, and you get a nobility which can impose itself and its religion on larger tribes.
>The Galaninar
>and the Pentans aren't. Couldn't it be that the Hyalorings came
>from Pent?
IMO the Starlight ancestors are. Hyalor, I don't know.
>AFAIK the proto-Praxians remained in Prax. Why would they need to
>migrate any further if the land is so full of peace and plenty?
Because, in that state of bliss, there was so much to enjoy and experience?
>>Then why were the Praxians so eager to fight their ancient enemies at
>>Argentium Thri'ile?
>Who says the Praxians thought the Horse Riders at Argentium Thri'ile
>were their ancient enemies?
I do. I cannot find a text source right now, though, which IMO just shows that the Praxians and their history aren't covered consistently in any supplement.
>And if they were so hated then why did
>the Praxians appear on the battlefield on only the fourth day? Surely
>they would have been raring for a chance to get those bastards on the
>very first?
Apparently they had to move into the back of the enemy cavalry to spring the trap, while Orlanthi and trolls bore the brunt of the horse-riders' attacks. There are only few informations on that battle, Dorastor: Land of Doom speaks of a trap for the horse riders, Uz Lore just states that it were the Praxians who made the difference.
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #313
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