A couple of older threads, that is more than 2 days old.
Hyalorings et al
When I asked Greg about Gamara two days ago, he said that he thinks this may simply be another name for Hippoi. Not sure I agree with that, but there it is.
Gardener
I thought Gardener was mentioned in the Elder Secrets write-up of Aldrya, though I could be wrong. Though I sincerely doubt whether the entire concept has been dropped, just because it is not in the one source we currently have in print on elves. Note that one reviewer hated Gods of Glorantha because he interpreted the cult formats to mean that no longer did any cult have subcults or spirits of reprisal. Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it ain't there.
High King Elf and Yelmalio
I wish Shannon would chime in on the elf discussion, because he has thought a lot about elf mythology. I don't think High King Elf and Yelmalio are the same figure to most elves. They fill different roles, and both are members of the Protectors, as are Arroin and (by some versions) Babeester Gor. Are we to say that Arroin and High King Elf are the same.
High King Elf is an Aldrya-type deity, with earth connections, though these are minor. Yelmalio is their Sun God. I agree that Green Elves have a greater relationship to Yelmalio than to High King Elf, and that Brown Elves would be the reverse. Yellow Elves I'm not so sure of.
One viewpoint is that High King Elf is only a title -- whichever local elf hero led the defense of their forest in the Great Winter is The High King Elf, to them. Broken Council acts on this belief, more or less. Yelmalio is universal to all the forests as the Little Sun, who kept some light and life in the world.
Exploding Elves
In the original Dorastor campaign, carried over into the original draft of Dorastor: Land of Doom, was a dwarf NPC, non-chaotic, who runs around in Dorastor. He has a bunch of humans called Suicide Runners, whom he can cause to explode. In The Book of Drastic Resolutions, Volume Chaos, I suggested that perhaps what he had was a bunch of _runners_, since he is allied with the Hellwood elves (per the draft), and it is much easier to explain where he gets a nearly undending supply of runners than an unending supply of humans. Could these be some type of eucalyptus runner?
Hyalorings and/or Pure Horse Tribe in Prax
I believe that the Hyalorings are the original Pure Horse Tribe of Prax, kicked out before the Dawn. I won't go into all of that here (though it is related to my beliefs about Yamsur), but I do have one explanation for why they are so hated.
Before the Dawn, stellar events were very much apparent, and important to most of the Grey Age cultures. One of the most important of these events was the battle between (in Dara Happan terms) Shargash and Kargzant. In this battle, Kargzant soundly defeated Shargash, and bound him into his path in the sky. Later, Kargzant was himself defeated and bound, then disappeared altogether.
Now, in Prax, I believe that the planet Shargash was originally Waha, or at least his sky aspect. He appears about 350 years before the Dawn, he organizes the sky (as Waha organized the world). The planet is either a war planet or a life planet, depending on where you go: Waha is a war god who brings life, by rescuing the protectresses. Some of the constellations in the sky can be related to Waha's mythic foes: Malia, Dark Eater, Oakfed, Wild Hunter.
So, one possibility for what the Pure Horse People did, was to betray Waha! They worshiped an evil sun god, who tried to kill their Founder, and bound him, making him limp across the sky (parallel to later myth, where Pavis does the same thing). Even its red color could be seen as a result of his bleeding from the wound.
Now, I don't think modern Praxians remember all of this, and certainly they don't know that their god used to be that planet in the sky which is now called the Bronze Treasure (see Tales 16, sometime in the near future, hopefully). But, their hatred for the Pure Horse Tribe remains.
Richard Melvin on elves
Very interesting stuff. There is an old, unpublished (yes, I know that's a bad word) story on some Chaosium disk about the Elf Wars in the First or Second Age. I'll have to dig it out and see if it addresses some of the problems elves have nowadays. If it does, I'll see if I can get permission to post it.
Elves and Songs
Rootless Elves as being deaf to the Song (=Group Mind?) of Aldrya I very much like. Renegade Elves are those who have stopped listening for some reason or, more likely, have started to "listen" to a different song? Perhaps some flaw in their nature has caused them to start "hearing" part of it wrong. Or, if you think that elves need to act a certain way to remain elves, they may have been exposed to outside influences, which have caused them to start thinking they can make the song even better?
The whole elf discussion (what I have seen of it in my effort to stay at least a little caught up) has been very interesting, entertaining, and useful.
Hsunchen and Spells
While I deny that hsunchen are non-human (and did not like that aspect of the Basmoli write-up in Tales), I think that many hsunchen tribes would include members who could become the totem animal without the spells. The Telmori have werewolves. RQ2 included were-tigers, were-boars, and were-bears, to go along with the Fralari, Mraloti, and Rathori cults, IMO. It is possible to interpret these lycanthropes [sic] as being hsunchen in animal form, but I choose not to do so.
I would imagine that the Galanini of Ralios once had were-horses, though probably no longer. If they were hsunchen originally. I think the Basmoli probably get were-tigers once in awhile. Damali get were-deers, etc. The more closely the hsunchen are tied to their totem animal, the more common such weres would be. I have suggested that as many as 1 in 7 Telmori are born as werewolves, at least to some tribes, and that would surely be close to the upper limit.
]My only problem with all this -- do I really want troll were-spiders and were-beetles?
As another option, back in the RQ:AiG/RQ4 draft, there were attempts at rules to make spells renewable to initiates if they were cast on holy days. As I recall, Greg favored this. As I believe he put it, on the Orlanth High Holy Day, ALL initiates fly. In other words, on the local holy day of the hsunchen totem, all of the tribe's initiates (that is, all those considered to be adults) use the spells they have sacrificed for. At the end of the time, they revert to human. And, they haven't lost the spells.
Yet another alternately, you could allow that all the spells last for 1 hour or more on the holy day, and all day (or night, as appropriate) on the high holy day, if they have one. This is still within the normal bounds of the rules: stretching, not breaking.
Both of the above are ideas I would suggest apply to almost all cults. Rather, one or the other could be adopted, I might have trouble with my conscience allowing both renewal of spells and automatic increase in the duration. For initiates -- if they can renew, you could allow the rune levels longer duration, since they already get the spells reusably.
Gardener and Gentre
I note that Genert's land was sometimes called Genert's Garden, so I buy into the correspondence Gardener = Genert 100%. Most of the central Genertelan cultures have some notion of Genert, the elves should as well. And, as a "civilized" god, Genert is a great choice for Gardener. Indeed, the Gardeners' Circle includes the leaders of elf culture, even as Genert was the "ruler of Genertela" in the Golden Age. And this fits in with the Raven myth in an earlier issue of Tales, where there are orchards in Prax. If Gardener is a more cultivation-type deity, this is appropriate for Genert's land.
This also relates well to the White Elves, who I think are the same as the Adryami Lords mentioned in Nomad Gods as being one of Genert's People. Old notes of Greg Stafford's when he was playtesting Glorantha: the Game a few years ago, give an Elf Lord, a servant/lieutenant of Genert, as a primary foe of some Orlanthi clans. It does all seem to go together well.
I also note that elves hate Oakfed, the god who burned down the forests of Prax, in particular. Now, this is surely a general hate for the Wildfire, but I like a more specific hate for the Praxian version of the god -- he killed the Gardener of Prax.
With Gardener as a Genert-derived deity (or vice-versa), it might be easier to figure out his role in elven culture. I would not expect him to be a shamanic deity, as I once thought. Any other possibilities, other than the Gardeners' Circle? Or is that enough?
In this respect, Genert and Flamal are actually very similar deities. If Flamal originated in Ralios, as some have speculated, Genert being the elf Grower of the east makes sense. Each has many similar properties, though with a different emphasis. And, of course, Flamal is alive now, whereas Genert is not.
Plowing Fields in Prax
For most of Prax, I would say this is impossible. The land is mostly dead, and will remain that way until Genert returns. Rob Heinsoo thought recently that the nature of Wildfire needed to explore intentional burning of land in Prax to make sure it didn't get overgrown. But Greg said that it wasn't necessary -- Prax not growing anything but thistles and leather plants is a mythic thing.
Anti-Duck Panelists Needed
What? There are actually people out there who don't _like_ ducks? Say it ain't so, Joe, say it ain't so....
As I doubt anyone would believe me, of all people, if I said I wanted to be an Anti-Duck person on the panel, I am volunteering to be a Pro-Duck person. Since I doubt the panel needs another one, I will take my place in the audience to make lots of comments in favor of ducks. Since they are Orlanthi, we can just all quack very loudly until the anti-duck people realize the error of their ways, right? :)
And on that note, I think I will take my leave. For now. Though I have given up on trying to catch up, so there will be no comments on Digest #s 220 to 310. Unless I see something I really, really, _really_ have to comment on.
Stephen Martin
ilium_at_juno.com
- -----------------------------------------------The Book of Drastic Resolutions
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