Elves and Metal

From: Erik Sieurin <BV9521_at_utb.hb.se>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:12:32 +0100


Chris Lemens:
>. He reassembled the physical body of Flamal on
> the surface of the lozenge. To do this, he had to collect the pieces from
> wherever they had been scattered.

Hm. I suddenly became aware of a problem here. Come to think of it, doesn't it sound weird that Zorak Zoran did not eat Flamal after slaying him? Or at least ver untrollish? How do you get those pieces of the body back then. This can give two pieces of mythical material: 1, Zorak Zoran did not eat Flamal - he suddenly became busy elsewhere, and when he returned the body was gone. What disturbed him so much that he left such a hyper-delicious snack behind? Or was it that Flamal had some Trick which let him taste so awful that even Zorak Zoran spat him out? Could be good material for a Troll-defense spell/heroic power.
2, HKE quested down into Zorak Zoran's stomach to find the pieces of Flamal's body. Another view of the "underworld"? And how did he survive!? (Party on the Godplane. The cultural heroes are sitting around bragging about what they did during the Darkness. HKE to Orlanth: "Baths of Nelat? Hah! That's for SISSIES!")
>. I think where we start stretching
> credibility too far is when we get plants with features that could not be
> naturally occurring, like copper arrow trees.
The difference is, of course, that the Aldryami did not BREED these things. They where gifts of Aldrya due to specific needs, perhaps quested for, perhaps Aldrya herself saw the need and gave them away.

> It takes too long to grow a new tool and a
> normal gardening elf will need to do far too much work to do it all with
> magic.

Huh? Too long? Real world carpenters did similar things on a smaller scale during the last century and into this one. I remember walking the forest with my father as a kid, and he could stop now and then and say, "That tree will be a perfect this-and-that in a couple of years." Especially boatwrights and woodcarvers would tie trees or prune them to make sure they would grow into good shape. And I'm sure elves take a far longer perspective than man - though they might not be immortal, and a lot of them actually live no longer than man, they are tree-like. Hurrying things does not seem tree-like to me. And IF you are in a hurry, THEN you might have spells to help you.

James Wadsley:
> > > Pam Carlsson:
> > > plants like wheat and barley were incredibly successful because they had
> > manipulated their environment (us!) into ensuring their survival and
> > propagation over vast areas of the world (eg the midwestern US).
> > Erik Sieurin
> > Indeed. And the same goes for our domestic animals. In fact, modern
> > humans could not survive well without our domestic plants and animals.
> > Our plants and animals have domesticated us as much as we have
> > domesticated them.

You've got it wrong. The first was not said by Pam, but by someone else. The second comment came from Pam. I was fuzzy in my quoting.

> To my way of thinking, the Elves serve the forest more than vice-versa
> which implies the Elves are more likely to be engineered NOT the trees.
> Some myths of Elvish origins place them entirely as a somewhat
> artificial or deliberate forest creation.
And I tend to agree with those myths, but why should an Elf have to be eaten by trolls to defend the forest, but a tree cannot end its life by being cut down for armored bark? I even do not think there is much fuss about it: it is the duty of armorbark trees to produce armorbark, and it is the duty of warrior elves to risk their lives destroying those who would despoil the forest.

To add to the confusion: A heretic thought. Elves reincarnate. Sometimes they reincarnate as trees. Trees reincarnate. Sometimes they reincarnate as elves. Sometimes you do your duty to the forest by spending your life running around and shooting arrows at annoying fleshies; sometimes you have the simple duty of growing and living. In forests which aren't Elf Forests the trees have not spent so many incarnations (inherbations?) as moving and thinking things, so they are less able to think in the way we humans use the term; in Elf Forests, they have done that so much that when they finally get a life of just Being, and have ample opportunities to literally vegetate, they get incredibly savy and wise. (But not quick-thinking or witty.) Similarily, those Elves who live in normal forests will be much more slow and tree-like.  

> > Erik Sieurin, on Elves enchanting wood
> > Spells, yes. I have no mythical explanation for these, which is Bad,
> > but maybe you can come up with some.
> I think that enchanting and rituals are a good game mechanic to
> capture a slow process whereby an Elf and tree cooperate to grow
> something useful to the forest

Actually, I disagree with myself: enchanting in the human way may not be a good word for it. They grow stuff they need, and they are much better at it because they have such a deep understanding for what they are growing. It just seems magical to humans.

> > Enchant Wood: Oak, Ash, Pine
> I like these but I still think the tree, whether enchanted from a seed
> or not, must willingly give parts of itself and be recompensed with
> magic points or POW and special attention. It would be terrible
> if the carefully grown tree was then murdered outright and dissected
> to provide goods for the Elves.

Is a soldier sacrificing himself for his familiy, friends and sovereign "murdered" by them? Neither is a plant. I actually think no tree would say "no" if used for these purposes; it would feel honoured.

(Remember that during normal circumstances, the tree would live a full and normal life until it is cut down. See it more like donating your organs so that someone might live. Or, since you do not have to cut down the whole tree - you can use parts and they might regrow - like being a blood donor.)
If the elves start cutting down trees en masse, they better have a bloody good reason, sure, but I took that for granted.

Elves think and act tree-like; if they plant a hundred armor trees, it means they expect a battle within say sixty-seventy years, not the next year.

> > Body of Bronze
> I can't mythically explain this spell.
Neither can I, as I stated outright. I think bronze was wrong, though, should have been copper.

> I don't like the idea
> of conversion between basically very different things. This is why I like
> the idea of pure metal trees and possibly elves. Wood doesn't grow
> metal - it is simpler and more elegant to have living metal trees.

Stone and wood are kin - distant but kin. Elves may abhore "dead things" - but they are dead because THEY killed them. The wise elves may know this, others may just hate stone and metal.

Why are not the copper trees and bronze bushes dead? Because they were closer kin to the elves, and did not get involved in the fight until very late. They lost fewer numbers.

> This actually fits into the picture of metal are the bones of gods
> too and not just tree and plant gods. Plants recycle organic material
> to provide nutrients for themselves. Why shouldn't magical metal plants
> partake of the remains of gods to build themselves. This might imply
> something about the nature of areas where metal trees may grow. This would
> also imply gem trees fertillized with God blood and bone.
Or that the sap of metal trees might crystallize into gems.

More heretic thoughts: all trees and plants were once metal-like - tougher, stronger, gleaming. Just like all beings were. The later races are punier and weaker as a result of their mortality. Metal trees (or elves) are actually divine trees or elves. They might very well need the remains of other divine beings to grow (mortal soil, so to speak, holding too few nutrients) just as you suggested, which is why there are so few of them left.

Then there are differences to the metal gained from metal trees and the metal gained from god's bones, just like there are differences between making things out of wood and making things out of bone. Perhaps this is the reason for copper: it is said to be the bones of Earth gods, but most of it might simply be the remains of the divine forests of Godtime. There are probably subtle differences between oak copper, elm copper etc, that only elven smiths can notice (unless you happen upon one of those rare metal boughs).

So the Enchant Wood spells might instead turn the tree into a pseudo-divine tree, a metal one (copper with some special abilities due to its exact species and the fact that it is alive). And a elf making himself into living copper is merely lighting the divine spark within himself.

All Enchant Metal spells are merely giving that spark of the divine into the metal, making it alive again (like putting a cut-off flower into water). But it will wither sooner or later, turning into dead metal again.

Now, this gives an interesting twist into the eternal war between Elves and Dwarves. The Dwarves want to rebuild the World Machine. To do so, they need living metal and stone. But they cannot create true growing life; that is the realm of the Grower, their adversary. "Grower made material which Maker could use..." So they have to take it from the Elves, who has the few remaining plants with the spark of the divine. However, the Elves does not want these plants killed, for VERY obvious reasons.

If the Dwarves don't repair the World Machine, then the universe as we know it is kaputt. But if they cut down the Last Divine Trees, then the universe as we know still will be kaputt. Catch 22 indeed.

"The Owl and the Pussycat went to sea, in a beautiful pea-green boat..."
>From "The Owl and the Pussycat" by Edward Lear

Erik Sieurin
bv9521_at_utb.hb.se
Bodagatan 39, 2 tr
50742 Boras
Sweden
033/141731


End of Glorantha Digest V4 #326


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