I want to talk about cults with multiple 'rune' levels. I'm mostly going to agree with Alex.
Now, Steve has his 'multiple RLs = ruling god or merged cult' theory. Now, no one disputes that many cults with multiple rune levels are ruling gods, or that some of the remaining cults with multiple RLs are merged.
Orlanth, Yelm, Waha, Pamalt are all cases where the god is a ruling god and also has multiple Rune levels. There are also ruling gods that do not have multiple rune levels (Godunya, for example). I don't think that there is something intrinsic to the nature of ruling that makes the gods more complicated. The answer is simple - few gods are just rulers, they have other aspects as well (even in the RQ3 Magic book generic deities this was true), gods with multiple aspects are more likely to have multiple RLs. Indeed, most of these ruling gods have a rune level status that just embodies the ruling aspect (Orlanth, Pamalt, Waha, Yelm). SO this is why they have multiple aspects. Indeed, for several of them, remove the ruling aspect and suddenly the cult is a simple single rune level + acolyte one again - Waha, Pamalt for example. And you could argue that Godunya follows this model, with the Exarchs incarnating the ruling aspect.
Now merged cults also have multiple aspects, due to historical reasons. So they have multiple rune levels, due to multiple aspects.
So what am I saying? All I am saying is that multiple rune levels means multiple important aspects of a deity. Ruling is an important aspect. Multiple religions joined together is also a reason to have multiple aspects. And if there is another reason to have multiple aspects, then that will also result in multiple aspects. Now, I certainly wouldn't want to claim that they were the only reasons for a cult to have multiple aspects, so I can't say I agree with Steves theory as a proscriptive one. But as a predictive one? Sure, ruling gods generally have multiple rune levels, joined cults generally have multiple rune levels. And I'm sure there are some other guys with multiple rune levels for other reasons.
SM
> As for the ruling gods, I note that all but one (Orlanth) have shamans,
> and that none of the other cults have shamans.
I agree with Alex. Basically, Stephen is wrong - Yelm is the obvious counter example. There are several ruling gods with no shamans. I think there is a good case for saying that the ruling god almost always will have a shaman or priest class that are separate the ruling aspect. But only in societies that are still actively shamanic will this class be shamanic.
Another point - I think the role of Rune Lord as separate to both Priest and Ruler is a very late development in most societies - in more primitive cults the status of Acolyte takes almost the same role (ie telmori wolf warrior), though less developed and thus lesser in status. I think this is in part because there is a natural competition between the two aspects of the cult (holy warrior and priest) and the priestly caste will resist a Rune Lord class that is of equal status.
AF replies to SM
>> Personally, I believe that
>> the Orlanth cult should include a shaman level as well.
>
>I can see absolutely no Gloranthan reason for this, myself. Various
>sources have mentioned Theyalan shaman, but none (that I'm aware of)
>have suggested they have anything to do with the Orlanth cult. If
>anything, quite the reverse.
I agree quite thoroughly. The social role of the ruling priesthood has been taken by the Storm Voices. If there was a Orlanthi shamanic status, they would be under great pressure from the Storm Voices unless in a clearly defined less role (in which case they would probably die out). There are no shamans of Orlanth for the same reason there are no priests of Waha.
> Orlanth in RQ3
> seems clearly a merger of two cults I feel are better left separate,
> Thunderous and Adventurous, plus the Rex "subcult".
I agree with Alex - I think these are clearly the same cult in RQ terms, due to shared initiation. And I'm not sure that they were ever separate cults - I tend to think the Orlanth Wind Lord developed out of the acolyte status.
>One of the things I most liked about
>GoG when I first got my grubby paws on it was that it tried to have
>a cult structure determined by the habits and needs of the religion and
>culture, _not_ some Universal Cult Format.
Hear hear!
I loved this aspect of GOG.
David
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #344
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