cults, orca

From: David Cake <davidc_at_cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:42:08 +0800


>1. Where is there information about the Lightbringers Quest? We all know
>the general story, but what about the details?

        The details in King of Sartar are as much as you are likely to get in the near future. But its pretty detailed.

>Hasni just told me today
>that (at least in one version) the Lightbringers encounter Humakt in Hell,
>something I had never heard before.

        In one version, they encounter Humakt at the Gates of Hell, and Orlanth gives him the Sword Death back as his price of entry. KOS pg 68 In other versions, he is one of the dead/captured/broken gods encountered in the Emperors court. The first version might be the Humakti cult version?

>Further, who are Ginna Jar and Flesh
>Man? They don't appear anywhere else that I'm aware, and I'd like to know
>more about them.
>

        Wouldn't we all.... Ginna Jar is mysterious by nature - she represents collective action, though - perhaps she becomes Arachne Solara? Flesh Man represents mortal man.

Paolo says
>Ginna Jar is not worshiped by anybody. No tale tells what he did on the
>LBQ. He was there, period.

        Not true - Ginna Jar did one thing on the LBQ, which was teach the others to form the Lightbringers Ring, ie teach them to work together. Which may be a sideways way of saying that Ginna Jar was the wyter, the collective spirit.

>2. What's the deal with Yanafir Tarnils? There seem to be several versions
>of him floating around. Basic idea is that he went against his lord. The
>version that I'm most familiar with is that he went against Humakt by
>helping to reconstruct the Red Goddess.

        Yanafals Tarnils was once a Humakti of some sort, probably joining the cult as worshipped by the Carmanian Hazars. He is known to have fought Humakt personally at the battle of Four Arrows of Light, which was the great showdown between the Lunar forces of rebellion and the Carmanians. At that battle, Humakt was summoned by the Carmanians, and Yanafals had to fight him - Humakt was defeated, though he was outnumbered - Humakts einherjar had been driven off, but Yanafals had many allies.

        It seems likely that Yanafals had confronted Humakt well before this point, probably on the Red Goddess Quest that brought the goddess into the world. One idea is that they duelled, Humakt killed Yanafals, but Yanafals was resurrected to Humakts horror. I have a pet theory about this, but I won't bore long term list residents with it in detail unless requested - basically, on a LBQ (and the Red Goddess quest is similar to an LBQ) each participant must fail at something essential, and perhaps Yanafals 'failed' at the essential Humakti ability of unresurrectability.

Andrew Joelson
>The Seven Mothers sub-cult is much more Humaktish; it provides
>most of the Rune Lords (sic) for the 7M cult.

        Hmmm.... opposite, I would say. The 7M subcult of Yanafals Tarnils is a lot less Humaktish, simply because its a sub-cult - they are Seven Mothers cultists first, Yanafali second. So they are a lot less obsessed with
> Dueling, individual skill
>at arms, Truth & Honor, etc.

        as they have at least respect for the paths of all the Seven Mothers. Thus they are less concerned with individual skill at arms, as they revere Teelo Norri, Jakaleel, and Deezola. They are less concerned with honour, as they revere Jakaleel and Danfive. etc etc. I think the heartland Yanafali cult is much more Humakt like in all these respects, just better employed.

>Most Humakti who 'turn their swords' (go
>over to the Lunars & start using a curved sword) end up here.

        This is probably true though - just because the cult of Seven Mothers is a proselytising, missionary cult, and the Yanafals cult is not. So there will be a few Yanafali who are basically curved sword Humakti.

>Do I need to mention that I really wish there was an official cult write up
>of him?
>

        Nicks version is likely to be the best there is. We patiently await the blessed word of the Reaching Moon.

>3. Just read the long Dormal cult write up. The article mentions that
>Dormal is really only popular in the Holy Country. Which, begged the
>question, "Who do other sailors worship?" I'm sure the West (or most of the
>west) worships the Invisible God, and maybe Dormal as a saint. What about
>the rest of Glorantha?

        At least all the deep sea sailors know of Dormals ritual, though not all venerate him for it (the Vadeli, for example, learnt the ritual from Dormal but have not particular respect for him - or anyone else who isn't Vadeli). Note that ruleswise, the ritual is a sorcery ritual - anyone with a ceremony skill can cast it. Sailors worship a wide variety of gods, including Tsankh, strange East Isles gods, Ygg for the Yggs Islanders, Robber, other sea pantheon gods, etc. etc.

Hsunchen
Marion Anderson has a new and very variant view of Hsunchen sensing controversy, she signs off
>Flame at will!

        No, I'll just point out that the various Hsunchen tribes have widely varying mythology and tribal customs. And Hsunchen totems do not necessarily have any connection to the area where they live - Basmoli, for example, living in areas with no native lions at all. The nomadic Telmori, having lived in a wide variety of areas.

Orca

>If we just take
>Korasting as mother of the toothed whales, instead of a storm god, I
>think the rest of your thoughts still hold.

        It just doesn't work for me. Sea creatures already have a fertility/ mother figure - Triolina.

>I'm afraid that the Sperm Whale - Orca - dolphin
>progression "proves" their connection to Korasting in my mind.

        Why? It doesn't prove much at all to me. Are we to assume that all things that come in at least three sizes are thus related to trolls?

        The trollkin-troll <--> dolphin orca thing doesn't hold up for a second under close examination. Not only is there no direct lineal link between dolphins and orcas, but they don't associate. No one tries to claim that wolves are mistress race dogs, and jackals dog trollkin.

        My suggestion - take the whole troll/orca connection and make it part of troll mythology, but not actually what the orcas themselves believe.

        Another aspect of it all - troll matriarchy is means female dominated families, female trolls are bigger and tougher, etc. much the same way as most human societies are patriarchal. Orcas, in contrast are matriarchal in a much more literal 'mother' sense - an orca follows its mother around until one or the other dies, and never leaves its mother - its not a question of which sex is dominant like trolls, its pure mother veneration.

        Oh, and on seal/walrus whatever hsunchen - I don't know whether they exist, and I would tend to think that there is a bit of an excess of hsunchen proliferation lately. But I am certain that legends of seal, walrus, etc. hsunchen exist - check out the Meld Form and Proteus spells, someone who had used these could convince people they were hsunchen easily.

the Heroplane

>Several people
>here seem to think the godplane is just a mythic shadow of physical
>events: but that's the way it is on earth and Glorantha is much more
>magical and less mythically alienated. Although the godplane is
>alterable by the actions of people, it's also the prephenomenal realm,
>i.e. where symbolic things live before they're rendered each time in the
>world.

        A very good point - and its important to understand that the heroplane is BOTH alterable by humans, and has intrinsic properties that are not alterable. If there had never been a worshipped god of the sun, then the first person to try and tap that power would still find that there was a huge amount of power there.

        Cheers

                David


End of Glorantha Digest V4 #373


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