Subjective Gloranthan Mythology,Universality of the Great Compromise

From: remster_at_interport.net
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:55:06 -0400


On the whole Subjective/Objective Deity Thread -

This has been a lively debate! IMO, I tend to want to side with Carl on this one... It seems to me that if deities are subjective in Glorantha, they're nothing but constructs of the desires and cultural needs of their followers. If they're totally objective, myths conflict. However, the muddle-muddle and vague arguements of the subjectivists rob Glorantha of what makes it special - the unique personalities of the deities and they're agendas and objectives. Perhaps some of the folks on this list may be uncomfortable with Deities who are self-aware and conscious of themselves - I, for one, am uncomfortable with the idea of Deities in Glorantha who are not. To make them simple magical constructs who are there to provide their worshippers with magic is to make Glorantha an essentially atheistic universe. That, to me, is too damn god-learnerish for my taste. That seems to me why the God-Learners were struck down... because humans were violating their powers under the great compromise, by moving the masks of the gods around, and tampering with the God's powers. Sorry, kids, you can't have your cake and eat it, too... either central genertalen myth is correct, and followers of some of the other gods don't have the entirely right story - ie, the missionaries of the First Council didn't get to them, or Glorantha falls apart. Everyone who runs Glorantha in an RPG setting has to decide the objective nature of their Glorantha - it can take any number of forms. Is this Lightbringer business a bunch of hooey and the Storm Pentans actually know the truth? Great! Did Pamnalt actually save the world, and the Genertelan religions just ride on his coattails? Or are the Gods just big presumptious spirits, and only the Malkioni know the truth? Whatever floats your boat. However, in order to function as a Game World, a common structure and actual truth to myth must be decided. To say the Deities are subjective is to effectively say they don't exist.

IMO, in the 20+years of development of Glorantha, it seems that perhaps the world may have gone farther than Stafford intended, and that the cycle of the LBQ and what we know as Central Genertelan myth was going to be the "truth". But then, the Malkioni, Kraloreans, Ralios and Pamaltela were developed, complete with conflcting myths. Thus, we're stuck with a Gloranthan 'Work in Progess' as it were, which is one of the things which makes the world so wonderful. I, myself, usually attempt to reconcile different mythic elements of Glorantha (is King West Wind actually Orlanth? and such.) What I deal with also depends on the campaign I run... For Prax and Sartar, this is usually not the problem. Issues like these only crop up in games where the PC's actually travel across the face of Glorantha.

Summed up - Deities have an independent existence from their worshippers. Choose what their answers to that Divination will be, but make sure they have their own answers!

THE GREAT COMPROMISE I feel it's a fallacy to think the certain parts of Glorantha are not 'part of the compromise'. While perhaps the issue of the subjectivity of the Gods is a matter of opinion, the Great Compromise is not. It has been definitively stated by many sources (CoP, GoG and Glorantha boxed set, etc.) that while differing cultures have their own take on the compromise (in the west, Zzabur cast this god-awful spell which integrated Chaos with the world, resulting in Time, Frex), all cultures in Glorantha to my best knowledge have some explanation as to why after the Darkness the world is different, why the Gods can't interfere in the doings of mortal races and what rules define the relationship between men and the Gods, and how to interact with the powers of the GodTime.

I bring this question up for debate - What are the universal constants of Glorantha, that transcend cultures? What are Glorantha's 'base laws'?

In my opinion, in all Gloranthan Myths, these aspects always play a part...
(1) The existence of a perfect world, before time.
(2) A different nature of time, that makes it distinct from 'Time' as
known today.
(3) The existence of Chaos, and the destruction of the mythic world.
(4) A great act which merges the remnants of the old world and chaos,
and establishes the order of the world we know today.

Thus, to those who say that certain peoples are not bound by the Compromise and who say that their deities can violate with impunity... IMO, you're wrong. Gods who walk the earth is quite feasible by the terms of the Compromise, since all of these instances are initiated by the God's worshippers. Has there been any case in Glorantha where a God arrives uncalled by worshippers?

The Great Compromise - No matter what you call it, it's universal law ;) Comments? Flames?


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