<< No. I don't think divination provides any answer you didn't already suspect. Only people capable of creating their own paths can come up with non-orthodox answers.>>
I have a problem with this idea (assuming I have understood it correctly, always a hazard). I agree that divination will tend to produce cryptic answers, but it must at least be capable of producing answers you didn't suspect. Otherwise, what would be the point of doing it? Even if we throw away the roolz altogether, surely it still follows that in Glorantha one puts some sort of energy (be it POW, fatigue or whatever) into casting a spell? And if all that spell gives you is a meaningless augury onto which the caster puts his own interpretation, exactly what is that energy doing?
Anyone can throw bits of coal into a fire, eviscerate a chicken or throw runestones on the floor and think they see some pattern in the result. There has to be some tangible difference between just doing that and casting a spell. Now, I agree there are instances where the divination won't work, such as trying to answer theological debates. In these cases, you really would get a random pattern, which a priest would no doubt interpret as supporting whatever he previously thought. (This also answers a question Carl asked, BTW) But, if I have followed what you are saying above correctly, you suggest that this should always be the case. If so, what does the spell DO? Or have I misrepresented your position?
Jim Chapin:
<<When culture A meets Culture B, which has a different view of the
world and its past/meaning, in most cases one view proves RIGHT, not in some
abstract sense, but in the sense that, say, the Indian Ghost Dancers found
out that their dances did not stop the white man's bullets.>>
In the RW, yes. But the point is that in Glorantha this doesn't seem to happen. Orlanthi, Praxian and Dara Happan magic all work equally well, despite the underlying mythology being based on contradictory views. So you can't tell who (if anyone) is right.
<<I'm reminded of Isaac Asimov's Foundation, in which he points out that the "religion of science" WORKS. I'm quite prepared to believe that it doesn't work on Glorantha, but as a GM, or a player, I still want to know what does. >>
What _seems_ to work is beleving in one's own mythology and holding to one's own beliefs and customs (otherwise you get zapped by the Spirit of Retribution, to give an extreme example). What the underlying reason is doesn't matter - well, not to me.
Carl Fink, replying to Alex:
<< >"if it doesn't work, what's the Real Reason why not?"
That, too.
If you get contradictory answers from "the same god" (say two Yelm priests ask), we have either the odd prospect of Yelm lying to his followers, or Yelm not existing. Neither appeals to me. If Yelm *is* a reliable source (at least from his own viewpoint) then all those "how can they argue about doctrine?" questions come right back.>>
So, obviously he doesn't answer this sort of question. Perhaps Divination only works on questions about the post-Dawn Inner World, say. This is an admittedly arbitrary, but IMO workable, limitation on the spell. The gods' powers aren't unlimited, why should we assume that they will answer any possible question put to them?
Martin Dick agrees with me (thanks), then asks about whether specific events are known outside of their cultural area. My answers, FWIW:
The Sun Stop, Gbaji/Nysalor, Dragonkill War, The Closing:
These are all historical events, and are as undeniable and universal as the existence of the Red Moon. Although the Dragonkill War was geographically confined to Dragon Pass. As you say, people may have different explanations for them, but here I think we can all agree that the events did happen as indicated.
The Dawn, IFWW, the Spike, Chaos
AFAIK, all Gloranthan mythologies contain some allusion to these events, although they may characterise them differently. Many of the myths about the events may contradict each other, though. As for Chaos, different cultures will define it in different ways, and may even argue about whether it is always a Bad Thing, but it definately exists. Chaotic Features, for example, are objectively real.
<<The Block - Is some cosmic baddie under there or is just a really big and bad broo?>>
I'm not sure if anyone other than the Praxians has any myths about the Block or what is underneath it. But I doubt that the Malkioni, say, would accept it was the Devil if asked. So, IMO, this one isn't an objective fact.
Stephen Martin, replying to something I posted ages ago but which appeared only recently for some mysterious reason:
<< Since the ancients of the RW measured no parallax in the stars, our ancient world-modelled Glorantha should also have parallax-less stars. Yes, things have changed in Glorantha since the "good old days". But the fundamental physics of the world remain the same.>>
Don't agree with you, mate. Frex, the moon observed by our ancestors clearly isn't at all like the Red Moon, the tides don't work in the same way, etc. The above is a perfectly playable and reasonable option, mind. It just doesn't fit Glorantha as I understand it. YGMD...
All hail the Reaching Moon
Trotsky
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