>>Carolyn (McKinney):
>>Now I'm really confused...Does it contradict some published/unpublished
>>source to >>assume there *are* elves in the Troll Woods? My original
>>motivation for putting elves >>in the Troll Woods was that it wasn't
>>*always* the Troll Woods.
>Well... I'd argue the trolls have been there since the Dawn, since
>_Trollpak_ seems to >show that the troll Shadowlands were once more
>powerful then they are now (in the First >and Third ages, at least.) So
>any Elven population holding on for 17 centuries is >perhaps improbable.
>(Elves might have migrated in later, for some reason.)
I am a bit sketchy on the history here, but I imagined that the fittest elves weathered the darkness here. Maybe migrated in when the rest of the trees in Prax were being burned, and helped the trees here survive. (RW coelacanth supposedly survived 70 million years, by hiding and being shy. It can be effective) I know it's not an elfwood, but trolls don't have the same weedy stranglehold on their woods as elves.
>>I wasn't trying to imply that trolls hate trees, but that they love them,
>>and would love to gobble them all up
>The troll communities that _Trollpak_ seems to describe are not set in the
>middle of >blasted wastes, where everything edible within a night's walk
>has been nibbled down to >the bedrock (e.g., the Redstone Caverns in
>_Trollpak_. Plenty of plants there).
>Why? 'Coz the _big_ trolls say "Don't eat this." The right to chop down
>trees is >probably controlled by the troll leaders, who preserve the
>forest for their own >reasons.
This is pretty much what I meant, the *big* trolls being the mother cultists (Ernalda, Kiger Litor) The tree-chopping being the "you may eat this" and the "don't eat anything else" being implied. If you're a freaked-out ZZ pogrom waiting to happen, that's your problem. But don't expect the rest of the clan to share your obsession, especially if you start talking scorched earth and burning down trees and whatnot.
>>against the Aldryami, who might stand a fair chance against the Uz in
>>all-out warfare.(no?)
>Nah. Surrounded by trolls; vastly outnumbered, at least during the First
>and Third >ages; lacking the protection of an Elf forest; without any
>significant protectors; the >Elves are doomed.
You're saying elves are doomed if the trolls choose them as the target of
full-scale war, but the Uz casualties and destruction of the Troll woods
are factors too, IMHO serious enough considerations to provide the meager
loophole in which the elves might still thrive. Too much bother to kill'em
all.
>If I was a Kitori Troll that hated Elves, I'm not stymied by their "Hide
>in the Tree >Tops" strategy. My long-term response: * Chop down any tree
>the Elves put a "building" >in. * Chop down any tree with a large number
>of elves in it (e.g., when
>they're at temple).
If you could find them, and if some matriarch didn't notice and find something better for you to do.
>Granted, I'm losing trees, but the Elves are going to be hit bad.
<brutal, effective tactics snipped>
I agree that trolls could rip the woods to bits, and might be able to burn the elves out, but why? Do they consider it some horrid insult that elves exist? Elder Secrets mentions that they're not enemies. Maybe rivals, definitely not friends, but I'm just not convinced that the effort is worth the hastle...Forest fires? seems a bit hysterical to waste so much food, esp. over some ideological slant. If the elves are no real threat, then ignore them, harvest them like any other wild crop.
>I'm not sure what the Gorakiki situation is like in Kitoria, so I might
>have to bring >in DakInk or ShaPlat outsiders). * Raise special
>tree-eating bugs to assault the elves. >(The trolls have had plenty of
>time to raise the same).
again, alot of effort to exterminate a species of snack, but since you
mentioned it...
I've been reading up on some likely local insects for sub-cult info, and
among beetles alone, the diversity is amazing! My biggest problem has
actually been balancing the voracious appetites of beetle grubs against
their food/artifact/labor value. Introducing a beetle whose main skill is
"eat tree" would be disasterous. Gorakiki might be offended. OTOH she might
be impressed, but some matriarch would almost certainly spank you.
>Slaughter any tree with a dryad in it.
Kitori are big into Ernalda, again, that's a paddlin' IF you could do
it...Arn't dryads' moms usually dieties? That's an awful big paddle.
>>Rather than having the Uz slaughtering Aldryami all night, and the
>>remaining Aldryami >>slaughtering Uz all day
>Or the remaining Aldryami descending from the trees and being repelled and
>slaughtered >by the Human Kitori. (Which may have been one of the
>motivations for the trolls and >humans to cooperate in the first place:
>kill elves.)
The elves might not have to descend from the trees, but could loose a rain
of arrows...I know we're not talking rainforest canopy here, but I can
imagine their paths not crossing much. If the Aldryami avoid the humans&Uz,
and help keep the treetops lush & shady, what's the problem?
>You argue that trolls and elves will put aside their ancient hatreds if
>evenly matched >(a claim that the history of Glorantha does not seem to
>support, note). But they're not >evenly matched. The trolls basically are
>getting all their defensive advantages plus a >fair number of offensive
>ones while the elves have little going for them. Natch, the >elves can
>kiss their leafy butts goodbye. (Ho, ho, ho).
I'm *really* not trying to imply that Kitori just want to give peace a chance. But I'm not convinced that they'de consider Aldryami their mortal enemies. Sure, they're as tasty as can be, so eat them whenever you can, but extermination? What's the point?
>the elves are baked, roasted, fried, stewed, boiled and broiled. Mmmm-mmmm.
Untill there are not more elves to eat? for miles? for anyone? forever?
Something about elves is just irritating, eh? I can relate to that. Like if my apartment was infested with lobsters, I'de want to kill and eat all the nasty/tasty bastards that DARED to creepy-up my turf, but I wouldn't burn the building down, or even burn just the porch off to accomplish this appealing but mildly psychotic goal.
empathizing, but only to a point...
- -Carolyn
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #444
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