Saintly Yanoor, May-his-name-be-cursed, +++

From: Stephen Martin <ilium_at_juno.com>
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:54:36 EDT


Nils Weinander <nilsw_at_ibm.net>
Kralorelan history

>Now this makes very good sense if you take into
>account Sandy's theory that Shang Hsa (may his name
>be cursed) had his third eye opened and turned into
>Saintly Yanoor. Yanoor then lost interest in the
>running of the empire and turned to contemplation
>and spiritual matters.

Now I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that Saintly Yanoor was killed by the False Dragons Circle, and that Shang-hsa (MHNBC) was their puppet-emperor. In other words, Yanoor died _before_ Shang-hsa (MHNBC) came on the scene. So how could Shang-hsa (MHNBC) have _become_ Yanoor?

>Meaning that emperor Daruda was really a hsunchen
>invader of the dragon people who got assimilated
>into the Kralorelan society, the merged culture
>becoming the Kralorelan way?

Given the facts that 1) Kralorelans state they were not draconic at first,

        2) The dragon hsunchen people _were_ around at some point in the pre-Time era, but are not in the Third Age

        and 3) The Path of Imminent Mastery is so obviously dragon-hsunchen based as to barely need stating,

Yes, this seems exactly correct. In fact, I would state that the formation of the Kralori Empire actually occurred _when_ Daruda, the First Dragon Emperor, took the local human tribe of declining solarists under his, er, wing. "Emperors" before that were actually the Divine Emperor gods worshiped by the Kralori humans.

I would suggest that the "fact" that "Aether" and "Yelm" were the first two Emperors is a God Learnerism, and that the names of these Celestial beings were different before the FDR came in and changed the records -- why do you think Shang-hsa (MHNBC) burned all the books?

Joerg Baumgartner <joe_at_toppoint.de>
God Learners on the list

>Must be, since the ones listed by Sandy all deny the Monomyth's truth to
>some extent. Seems that a God Learner has to deny being one... At least
I
>deny to be a God Learner, even in mind-set. Call me a Theyalan Council
person...

And this is why you _are_ a God Learner. I used to deny being a God Learner, until Charlie Krank pointed out to me that this _proved_ I was a God Learner. I guess I was sort of illuminated at this point, because I realized that he was right. I have never denied it again.

So, Joerg is proven to be a God Learner -- anyone else want to deny it? ("Kill them God Learners!" we hear chanted in the background).

I wonder -- since I no longer deny being a God Learner, does that mean I'm not one any more? :)

michael.raaterova.7033_at_student.uu.se (Maria & Michael) Citing Sources

>While i don't remember the details about this, i was under the
impression
>that the consensus was that *citing* the sources one works from is A
Good
>Thing, but that *sticking to* the sources is A Bad Thing. A fertile
>imagination is always better than any source, be they OOP or not.

This most definitely was _not_ the case. What I said was that I preferred that people who answer questions, and post stats, state whether they were made up by them, or were from a published source. I was flamed for, and it may be because people thought I wanted only published sources, though I said many times this was not the case. All I ever asked for was to distinguish between their ideas and material, and the "official" stuff.

As _I_ recall, the upshot was that most of the people who chimed in did NOT want to have to rely upon published sources, _especially_ if they were out of print or were not mass market (i.e., Greg's recent writings held less weight than RQ sources). Now, some of this may have been personal, but some of it seemed sincere to me.

Why don't we take another poll -- who would like people to at least make an effort to distinguish between their own ideas and material, and someone else's?

Joerg on Esrolian Marriage

>>Without knowing much about it, it seems to
>>be a Summer Husband, fertility festival. Since Esrolia and Argan
Argar's
>>marriage was the first Esrolian Marriage (I imagine),

>Not quite. She had Faralinthor before, and before that and through all
the
>later events Caladril as well (the Argan Argar myths in Troll Gods have
a
>situation where Lodril "does terrible burning things to Asrelia", which
>other people read "had hot sex with Esrolia", and where Argan Argar
saves
>the land goddess). I don't know whether there was a storm husband
between
>Faralinthor and Argan Argar, but that is most likely.

Since Storm Bull is given as a Husband-Protector of Ernalda in some places, I had always assumed that Storm Bull (or one of his sons, natch) was a "Year-Husband" of Esrola at some point in the Darkness.

This may have been _before_ Faralinthor, actually -- the myth in RQC about how Umath saw Esrola and Faralinthor together, and killed them, may actually originally be that Storm Bull saw the two together, and overcome with jealousy for his former wife, slew the two lovers.

As for other children of Argan Argar and Esrola (besides the Only Old One), some of Greg's old notes for MOLAD mention a Black River which is also their child. I don't recall which river it was, certainly not the Styx.

<kone_at_xsite.net>
Kill dem elves

>The elves might not have to descend from the trees, but could loose a
rain
>of arrows...I know we're not talking rainforest canopy here, but I can
>imagine their paths not crossing much. If the Aldryami avoid the
humans&Uz,
>and help keep the treetops lush & shady, what's the problem?

Though she may not have realized it, I think Carolyn has just given the best argument _for_ the presence of elves in the Troll Woods. Trolls who live in these woods presumably do not have big underground cave complexes, at least so I imagine. They live within the shade of the trees themselves, which are so dense that not even enough light gets through to frighten the trollkin.

How else could the trolls manage this without the help of elves? Now, I could accept these elves as troll slaves (like the elf in the Grubfarm, in Trollpak/Into Uzdom), or I could accept that the original spirit of peace between elves and trolls might still survive in this little, isolated patch of forest.

Unless the trolls worship some sort of elf-troll half-breed hero?

BTW, "Unrecidivist" means something like "unrepentant", if I make my Speak English roll.

MOB -- the bit about "worshipers" was a joke, since I know the debate has been ongoing for years. My WordPerfect 6.1 spell-checker wants worshiper, and rejects worshipper out of hand. Haven't tried other spell-checkers. My "Webster's New Encyclopedic Dictionary" (a few years old) provides both spelling as alternates.

Stepphen Martin
ilium_at_juno.com

- -----------------------------------------------
The Book of Drastic Resolutions
drastic_at_juno.com

End of Glorantha Digest V4 #445


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