Re: spell spirits, Masks

From: Jane Williams <janewill_at_mail.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:02:13 +0000

> From: Chris Bell <remster_at_interport.net>
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:35:23 -0400
> Subject: Spell Spirits and Spell teaching
> In the case of Rune Cults and Spells, I like to view spell teaching as a
> tiny Avatar of the God in questin comes to the mundane plane in a temple
> to teach the supplicant a particular trick or skill of the God.
Oh yes, sure. (Assuming by "rune spells" you mean Divine Magic?). Where possible I'd make it the spirit of some temple hero. Maybe who became a "spirit in the service of his god" by doing a fatal D.I., maybe one who just died and went to sit in his god's hall. One of the same bunch who can become allied spirits.

But spirit magic is supposed to be learnt from an unintelligent spell spirit - no brain, just enough POW to hold a spell. I don't see that being a avatar of any description, myself.

> I would imagine that learning higher level Spirit/Battle Magics may requie
> special Quests to differing shrines of God Time heroes of one's own
> cult.

Agreed. It's what happens when you get there that worries me.

> Does this help? ;)

Somewhat. I wanted an analogy with the idea of spell spirits to a shaman being like animals to be hunted - you seem to be turning them into Free Int beings as soon as they get connected with a formal temple.

I was going to stay out fo the subjective/objective thing. I was. Really. Oh well....
Alex Ferguson quotes Chris as saying:
> > As I've stated before in other posts to the digest, I feel that the
> > faces that we see of the Gods are partial influenced by the worship of
> > their followers, but their fundamental natures and mythic acts remain
> > the same. For example, King West Wind in Pent and Orlanth are two ways
> > of seeing Primal Storm.

and says:
> Chris, you appear to be asserting, either simultaneously or in
> rapid alternation, that the Gods are "Persons", and they're "Masks".
> Now, perhaps I'm just insufficiently Illuminated, but isn't this a
> more inconsistent belief than the ones you're trying to explain
> away thereby?

I find this a lot easier to understand by taking a nice concrete RW example. There is a Person called Jane. (Yes, really). However, it is very unlikely that anyone understands all aspects of this "Jane" in their entirety: I certainly don't. Instead, each person sees a "mask" that reflects their own interactions with this strange being. Sample Jane-masks might be:
"that Brit woman who keep writing rubbish to the Digest" (POV for you lot)

"Auntie Jane who plays hide-and-seek with me" (from my niece's POV)
"not a bad coder, shame she doesn't document it" (my boss's POV)
"what's that woman doing with a big car like that?" (POV of random male 

road-hog)
and so on!
Now if a simple personality like this "Jane" can be split into that many masks, don't you think the same can happen to, say, Orlanth? The gods are Persons, they are Masks, they are also (unlike the sample mentioned above) the personifications of both abstract and physical principles (Truth or Storm, for instance). All at once. Come to think of it, there are some Jane-masks that turn me into a personification of a principle - I gather I'm the personification of the feminist role-player to a few people, God(dess) help them.

People aren't simple, so why expect Gods to be?

Jane Williams                     jane_at_williams.nildram.co.uk

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~janewill/gloranth/index.shtml

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