That's an interesting point. If Illuminates can subvert both geases, and trait limitations, then it'd (more than is reasonable) shaft a HQ system based thereon. So there must be _some_ other limiting factor...
> In the case of Heroes, then to gain the Heroic powers, truly Heroic
> powers, means getting a Hero Cult, which in turn requires you to give
> something back to them
Again, Harrek's an obvious exception to this. I'm also not so sure that the Hero Cult, as such, precedes the successful quest, though the "ring", or whatever you form for such support, may be what forms the basis for such later.
> Firstly, I think that this does not require the support of your own culture
> but the "support" of the culture you are attacking.
Well, support isn't the term I'd use; it's more to do with having some sort of common mythic structure, or if you don't already, _making_ the necessary mythic connection. ("The Red Guards? Hey, that could be _us_...") How, and under what circumstances this can happen is a very subtle question.
> You wait until the Yelmalions are participating in a
> very magical version of the HoG themselves, such as on the High Holy Day,
> and then heroQuest to the HoG. Here you will find Yelmalio, except ***far***
> more powerful than the otherwise measly shadow you would face on the normal
> HQ, as this Yelmalio is the sum total of the magical power of ***all***
> Yelmalions across Glorantha.
This is a Documented Dirty Trick, but I don't think it normally works quite like that; this is usually a way to "ambush" a _particular_ Yelmalio (or whomever) quester, with whom one is already linked in some way, and who one knows will be on the heroplane that day, as part of the HHD rite. Starbrow's unsuccessful SLBP is another example of this. If you didn't want to zap a particular cultist, but the god in general, then you could try this at any time, I think.
> As difficult as it would be, if you timed the ritual correctly, then you
> could suceed in "killing" Yelmalio.
The difficulty of doing this is illustrated by the fact that this is effectively what every Zorak Zorani on the lozenge is trying to do, every time they re-act (their flipside of) the HoG HQ.
James Wadsley:
> I like the idea that individuals can act [as Heroes] without the
> support of huge cults. You could argue that a figure like Elric,
> being a figure of legend in his own time, has the tacit or
> subconscious support of much of his world.
Yet again, the example of Harrek pops up. On a much more mundane level, certain cults, such as notably Trickster, seem to thrive on what would otherwise be a disastrously low level of "worship". And furthermore, there are the Arkati, who are alleged to maintain a strong presence on the HP, regardless of their (lack of) strength in the mundane world.
> For example, a lot of bored Dara
> Happans secure within the support of the empire might provide a lot
> less HQ boosting that a bunch of desperate Sartarites?
This is certainly true. "Support" is only meaningful on an HQ if the chaps back home are prepared to share in the risk, too.
Cheers,
Alex.
End of Glorantha Digest V4 #540
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