>in campaigns where there is a clash of cultures you really need =
>some way of determining the results (and possibly even the victor) =
>of that clash. =
Ah, I don't disagree with you here. What you are talking about is the same kind of thing a wargame does - try and simulate the incredibly varied thing we call war. You are interested in a set of =
rules which say - by applying X myth to Y myth you get Z. I wish =
they existed but they don't and much as there is not quick way of =
simulating warfare, there can never be a quick way of simulating mythic conflict in Glorantha
>Given that the clash of cultures which is dominant in =
>Gloranthan roleplaying is the Sartarite Orlanthi vs The Lunars =
>and that objectively, Sartar seems to have no real chance when =
>you look at economics, miltiary strength and magical =
>sophistication in the early 1600s, we can explain the victory of =
>Argrath by saying that the myths of the orlanthi Sartarites in some =
>way are "better" than the Lunar's myths and this allows them to
>defeat the Lunars.
Er, I don't see how you can say the Lunars should have won given their advantages for their advantages also included some serious weaknesses. Much as Macedonia defeated Persia, much as Cortez defeated the Aztecs, much as the Goths defeated Varus at Adrianople so the Sartarites defeated the Empire.
Its not a question of myth, there were several factors involved:
(1). Imperial overextension and loss of focus. =
The Imperial forces in the Dragon Pass area were weak and =
when the elites of this force were destroyed by the Dragon, the Lunar position was untenable. Most of the Imperial army was not in Dragon Pass, most was back in the Empire in garrison =
or on their normal border posts. (Note the Empire is rich but =
the Emperor has to pay his men and this costs money! Check =
out the hassle the Roman Emperors had keeping the Legions =
paid and see what a long campaign can do to the treasury a =
la Trajan's Parthian and Dacian campaigns.
(2). Multiple threats.
The Lunars had pushed out of their narrow front border in Tarsh
into central Dragon pass and Prax placing themselves in =
conflict with a truly iimpressive amount of different people, =
many of whom were very powerful in fighting men, magic =
and capablity.eg the Nomads, the Orlanthi of Sartar, Heortland, =
the Esrolians,the Wolf Pirates, the Exiles, the Caladralanders =
etc. This combined with point (1). was a disaster waiting to =
happen.
(3). Inept leadership.
Fazzur managed to hold down much of Dragon Pass by being =
nice to the right people, paying off others, hiring others and =
letting others kick the hell out of others who had annoyed him =
and them. In other words he was a bright and capable general =
doing a wonderful job with inadequate resources. So naturally =
his superiors canned him. Wouldn't you want to ge rid of the =
smug git? So they replaced Fazzur, a Tarshite and one familiar =
with Dragon Pass with a well schooled Dara Happa who for all =
his martial virtues didn't understand the politics of the place he =
was trying to control and bring within the empire.
All great Imperial successes against the barbarians were =
attributable to this policy - Hon-eel and Tarsh, Hwaring Dalthippa =
and Saird. All used politics as well as military might to win a =
lasting peace. The only other Dara Happan to rule Dragon Pass =
was Palangio and look what happened to him!
(4). Adapting opponents.
You can only pound on someone for so long with a clear =
superiority in some form of combat without them adapting or =
creating a technique to cope with it - Argrath founded the Magical =
Union using Lunar techniques and old EWF magics. Militarily =
there was adaption too as the survivors of the lunar invasions =
became more efficient at warfare in all ways and many were =
veterans of large battles. Previously the Sartarites were more =
effective at clan combat and less effective at large scale combat =
(5). Skilled enemy leaders
When you constantly beat a power yet leave it intact then the =
defeated force can recover and produce new leaders who have =
learnt from their predecessors mistakes. If you go through =
enough of them then the system becomes one of merit first =
rather than politics. As the allies became better at fighting =
Napoleon as they learnt his tricks so the Sartarites had Kallyr, =
Argrath, Broyan. All were keen strategists and excellent battle =
leaders
=2E
(6). Central authority decadence.
The Imperial court had grown bored with the wars, they simply
weren't fashionable anymore. Sure it was exciting to wander =
among the barbarians for a while but they never appreciated Imperial fashion and kept trying to kill the Imperials instead!
In addition the Emperor changed to becoming a leader =
obesessed with his personal desires - kind of like the change John Lennon suffered when he married Yoko Ono. Imagine the imperial court looking like one of his famous "in bed" interviews. =
So the Tarsh King wa sleft to fight the war on his own till it was far too late to readjust the military balance easily and when they did they had problems because Sheng came back and that forced =
them out of Dragon Pass again.
After the fall of Tarsh it was no great leap to the fall of Aggar, Holay =
and Saird.
As far as I can see mythic superiority has little to do with it. Its a =
matter of looking at the strategic situation and analysing the causes.
Martin Laurie
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